A question of ethics....

[Andit]

A friend of mine & I were talking last night about ethics classes that we took (mine was through Gr 12 religion, D's was a university course). I thought it might be interesting (fun?) to post scenarios and discuss how we would react in those situations. The following scenarios have happened to folks I know (the first one to me, which I'm still trying to sort out since she still doesn't realize how much of a negative effect her deed had on me ).

Anyone wanna play?



Q1. A friend does something to betray you (you find out by accident). Do you cut the friend from your life or try to maintain some sort of friendship? Do you ever trust this person again?


Q2. An ex you haven't spoken to for over a decade calls, begging for money. Do you loan/give this person some? What if you are the significant other of the person whose ex showed up out of the blue?


Q3. You break off a relationship with someone, who owes you money. At what point do you dismiss it and consider it a lesson learned - $250, $2,500, $25,000?

[TaraF]

Hrm... well for me personally these are my answers.

1. If it was something such as a small secret of no major significance that was revealed I'd have a long talk with this friend and see if we could keep a friendship. Knowing of course that I can't trust them with certain things going forward.. that fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me thing. If it was something larger and of significance well that's easy. Cut. Done & Done. Trust is essential to any relationship and I don't have time in my life for people who don't have the decency to respect me. And that's what it comes down to. I've cut people out of my life before.

2. Very easy for me. An ex is an ex for a reason. I have zero communication with my exes. However, it wouldn't matter if it were an "ex" or a "friend" or a "long lost relative". You haven't been in my life for a decade and you call me up and want money? I'll direct you to the nearest Money Mart. But that's all you're getting from me. And the answer remains the same even if you are the significant other. You just need to tell your significant other the above.

3. It's a lesson learned when they stop paying you back. lol If I understand the question correctly. There is no point in driving yourself crazy trying to collect money from someone you know you just won't collect from. it sucks and it's a harsh lesson but why make yourself go crazy over it.

[Mia001]

TaraF ....

[MortgageQueen]

1. The type and degree of the betrayal would have a big impact on that decision. As TAra mentioned, you wouldn't want to be naive and go back to the way things were (trusting again) BUT I'd take a look at myself and ask, Could that have been me? Did I ever make that mistake or a similar one? If so, than you could probably relate to the situation better. If the friend was worth keeping, that I would talk to them. Trust may build back over time. If not, perhaps they can just stay more of an acquaintance rather than someone you're close to.

2. Again, that would depend on the circumstance and the person. If they needed help for a medical reason for instance. But absolutely 100% your significant other should be fully on board.

3. Depending on "why" the person wasn't paying me back. If they have no money, they have no money. If they choose not to pay back and it's significant amount, I would consider small claims court if I had enough documentation.

[Shwa Girl]

Anyone wanna play?



Q1. A friend does something to betray you (you find out by accident). Do you cut the friend from your life or try to maintain some sort of friendship? Do you ever trust this person again?


Q2. An ex you haven't spoken to for over a decade calls, begging for money. Do you loan/give this person some? What if you are the significant other of the person whose ex showed up out of the blue?


Q3. You break off a relationship with someone, who owes you money. At what point do you dismiss it and consider it a lesson learned - $250, $2,500, $25,000?

I'll play

Q1. Hmmm. I would let the friend decide the future of the friendship.
I would ask the friend about the betrayal and see how the friend answers.
If answers are lies, then the 'friend' has shown their true colours as a nonfriend, who does not have your best interest at heart.

Like in the Rembrants theme song of that old show, Friends, they sing "I'll be there for you. Will you be there for me too?"

Just a TV show, but the quote is true.

Q2 One of the lines in Shakespeare's plays was, "Neither a lender or borrower be".
Don't lend to friends.
Don't borrow from friends.
If you can and if you want to, you can give a gift to a friend.

Emphasis on "friend" and not "acquaintance" or "ex from the past".

Lending and borrowing hurts friendships in the long run. Ex's should remain in the past

Q3 Same answer as for Q2. Since I should not have loaned in the first place, because money lending between friends leads to trouble, I have learned a lesson. The money is gone.

Plus I don't have thousands to lend to anyone.
That amount is what a bank is for.
And am not a bank.
And the bank is not my friend

[Lynn49]

Hi, Andi....good questions...I'm afraid I have very little patience with the types of people you described. A betrayal is a betrayal, there are no grey areas: our relationship will either end immediately or I'll make certain we drift. If an old friend contacts me, as has happened, then I'm wary but I'll go with it; if they ask for money they won't receive a return call or email.
I'd never lend anyone a significant amount of money. Period. So as ShwaGirl posted, Shakespeare was right on this issue. And on many others, as well.

[Andit]

Thanks for playing, ladies.

The 3 scenarios are all things that happened.

Q1 I was the one who found out a so-called friend betrayed me. Because I found out by accident (I inadvertently overheard a conversation), I can't actually confront this person. It's made worse in that I don't think she realized she betrayed me, but was swayed by an individual I do not get along with. Long story short, she and I are part of a larger group of friends who get together regularly, some of whom are enamoured of another individual I consider a manipulator (I don't make any negative comments, they will eventually find out for themselves). For now, the friendship is maintained, although I will no longer go out of my way to help this person (I saved her over $1000 one year, which was a bit of an effort on my part).

Q2 My friend got a call out of the blue from an ex who resurfaced after 17 yrs of silence, whining about needing money to help a sick pet. My friend is a soft touch and sent $. I put an end to it when I pointed out that I actually have 2 pets who've had issues and live in an expensive city on roughly $1K/month.

Q3 2 friends both had this happen with their (now) exes (living together in committed relationships). One friend planned a vacation, the SO wanted to go along, but didn't have the funds at the time and promised to pay her back. After they broke up, she wrote off the $2500 when they broke up. The other friend loaned her SO money to help deal with debt issues. When they broke up, she pretty much wrote off the $25K. Both thought the relationships were stable, long-term and the money was an investment in their future. Sadly it didn't work out that way. I had a bf call me out of the blue after 1 yr of silence (actually he didn't have the nerve to call me & got my ex-coworker to call and ask me) to give him back his golf clubs which he had dumped on me, since he had nowhere to store them (they sat in the trunk of my car). At that point I was in a new relationship and just wanted to cut all ties, so gave them back after making him pay for a nice dinner for me (these were the days before I knew about ebay & kijiji, so he would be out of luck these days ).


I'll post more Q's when I get a chance (or think of some). If anyone else wants to post a Q, please feel free.

[Shwa Girl]

Q3 2 friends both had this happen with their (now) exes (living together in committed relationships). One friend planned a vacation, the SO wanted to go along, but didn't have the funds at the time and promised to pay her back. After they broke up, she wrote off the $2500 when they broke up.

Hmmm. That would be a opportunity to make other vacation plans
either a staycation
or a cheaper vacation
that both could afford

[Shwa Girl]

The other friend loaned her SO money to help deal with debt issues. When they broke up, she pretty much wrote off the $25K. Both thought the relationships were stable, long-term and the money was an investment in their future. Sadly it didn't work out that way.

Hmmmm.
A 25,000 debt?!
A part time job may have been able to pay for the debt -- slow and steady.

[Andit]

Hmmm. That would be a opportunity to make other vacation plans
either a staycation
or a cheaper vacation
that both could afford

Friend was going on a business trip, the extra was to extend the trip and turn it into a vacation for both. Needless to say, after not wanting to pay up (but buying expensive gadgets for himself), she ended the relationship and threw him out (not the only reason, this was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back).

[Andit]

Hmmmm.
A 25,000 debt?!
A part time job may have been able to pay for the debt -- slow and steady.

You're making the assumption he wanted to pay her back. He broke off the relationship, moved out & moved on (without the previous debt, she didn't count ).

[Andit]

Thanks for playing. Sorry to take so long with the new questions, life got in the way.


Q1. You discover that the person who moved in next door has a criminal past. Do you tell your neighbours? Keep it to yourself? Does it make a difference if the person is nice or nasty?


Q2. The neighbour you are friendly with is babysitting another neighbour's kid/cat/etc who runs into the street in front of a car. Luckily, nothing bad happens. Do you tell the parent/owner what happened if the babysitter doesn't?


Q3. New neighbours have moved in across the street and you discover that at night you can see right into their home. Do you let them know? Do you do your best to ignore the view? Do you spy on them (a la Rear Window)?

[Lynn49]

[QUOTE=Andit;6132112]Thanks for playing. Sorry to take so long with the new questions, life got in the way.


Q1. You discover that the person who moved in next door has a criminal past. Do you tell your neighbours? Keep it to yourself? Does it make a difference if the person is nice or nasty Depends, I imagine, as to whether or not he or she has paid for their crime, done time, etc. If so, it's over, no need to tell the neighbours. If there's an oustanding warrant, lol, then yes, I'd make sure everyone knew, including the police...


Q2. The neighbour you are friendly with is babysitting another neighbour's kid/cat/etc who runs into the street in front of a car. Luckily, nothing bad happens. Do you tell the parent/owner what happened if the babysitter doesn't? I would absolutely, 100% tell on the negligent sitter!


Q3. New neighbours have moved in across the street and you discover that at night you can see right into their home. Do you let them know? Do you do your best to ignore the view? Do you spy on them (a la Rear Window)?[/QUOTESome people don't care whether their homes are see-through or not, so I'd ignore the view; I have better things to do than spy on someone doing their dishes...

[lecale]

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[Jina]

1. I would share with DH but would not tell the other neighbours, unless one neighbour has a suspicion and asks me if I know something. I wouldn't lie. But going to a neighbour and saying it, no.

2. Yes. I take safety very seriously. If this happened to our kids, I would want to know. So yes, I would tell the parents.

3. I ignore and don't spy.

If I see young kids playing on the street and not being careful, not wearing helmet while riding bikes, or damaging people's properties, I would tell the kids' parents. I've had up to 8 neighourhood kids using my driveway as a playground, with their soccer/hockey balls hitting my windows or them walking in my flowerbeds. I've had a 6 year old going under our car to fetch a ball, his body was completely under our car, up to his head, could easily not see him if we had to leave. I had to tell the parents that I don't want the kids to play on our driveway because I don't want any injuries. Since it's our driveway, we are liable. But they keep playing there and riding their bikes without helmets. I guess some parents don't give a s***. Now every time we leave we have to be extra careful.
Another neighbour's cats have been going onto the roof and jumping onto our gazebo. It ripped. 1 hole. DH went to talk to them, said they offered to pay for a replacement. DH let it go and they said they'll keep an eye on their cats. 1 week after, I look through the window, another big hole.
Sorry for going off topic, but since we're talking about neighbours...
DH and I agree it's time to move.