Social Services Aka. Walfare

[POWERADE]

Yet another very touch subject, i'm sure there's alot of opinions on this from different points of views from tax payers, etc. you get the idea

But i'm just wondering how everyone feels about the system itself?

I myself hate how unjustified the system is, as i've saw cases where;

1) young men in their 20's that have drug problems, too lazy to work, and sleep in bed all day long, and get their rent/food/bills paid for, and getting one time payments of $2,500 +

2) Families who have children and their homemaker(father, mother) dies, and cannot afford to live even, and struggle to buy food even

3) People who have 3 & 4 kids, for 3 & 4 different men, who either don't know who the fathers are, or something else, and rely on the Gov to take care of their problems they created. And yet pay no tax dollars, but at the end of every month get a bigger child tax rebate, then families who have to get out of their bed and work everyday of their life.

I think every child is entitled to the same amount of child tax!! they all have to live the same way, and if this isn't the case i feel as the more tax to you pay in the more you should receive back in child tax. Just my opinion.

Like i said it's a very touchy subject and i feel alot of the time, the ones who truly need help, can't get it, while others abuse it for pathetic reasons like being to lazy to work, into drugs being broke all of the time, thats choices they make on their own and paths they follow, people can change things like this, but if someones parent/homemaker dies, this is something YOU CANT fix.

[Ashley01]

This is a very touchy subject, I think the system gets abused sooo bad!! I think that when someone that actually needs the help goes to get it they get a bad name. I think that people have abused it so bad that it is given a bad name. I don't agree that every child is entitled to the same about of child tax though, because there are some families that have 2 parent incomes and make ALOT more then other single parent families that can really use the money. I hate that their are people who sit back do nothing and use it, when there are the people out there working and trying to get by and just not being able to. The system is messed thats forsure!!

[jenna321]

You both have very valid opinions. Here another what about people who live common law and yet claim to be single so they receive GST and child tax cheque! That P@#$#@ me off more so than people going on social assistance. SS or welfare is there for a reason and I hope to God you never have to use it. Not everyone on it abuses the system. It is far more strict than it used to be! You cannot judge people, until you have walked in their shoes you don't know their individual story! Not everyone has been shown or given the tools to choose the a better way of life/living. For some that may be all they've ever known. Yes it's sad, and many working families struggle everyday!

[POWERADE]

This is a very touchy subject, I think the system gets abused sooo bad!! I think that when someone that actually needs the help goes to get it they get a bad name. I think that people have abused it so bad that it is given a bad name. I don't agree that every child is entitled to the same about of child tax though, because there are some families that have 2 parent incomes and make ALOT more then other single parent families that can really use the money. I hate that their are people who sit back do nothing and use it, when there are the people out there working and trying to get by and just not being able to. The system is messed thats forsure!!

The thing is with the 2 parents working, They both work to try to benefit themself, and if they have children, there are more cost involved with daycare etc then someone on walfare who is home everyday etc. and don't need those extra cost,i've seen 2 parents working in a family, and still need the money as it does take alot to raise a family. But the funny thing is with the Social assistance issue is i've also seen families who get paid $150 for babysitters for their children while they go out and drink and party, this is the part that blows me out of the water!! I defiantly think things like this is where all the abuse begins in the system.

One of the funny things i've also seen is how college, university gets paid for those people on Social assistance,and they get an education bill free, all accomendations provided, etc and i'm not sure if this is for all parts of canada, but i've been told that now some provinces give you a payoff when you go to work!! in my case both of my parents worked all of their life, and although they worked they still will not be able to handle out any of my remaining siblings full tuition payment as they will all have to go to school and pay the bill like the normal person as in many peoples case. I just think it's awful how some are offered better opportunity living on the Gov,never paying in any taxes then others who always have made an honest living. yikes.

[Ashley01]

The thing is with the 2 parents working, They both work to try to benefit themself, and if they have children, there are more cost involved with daycare etc then someone on walfare who is home everyday etc. and don't need those extra cost,i've seen 2 parents working in a family, and still need the money as it does take alot to raise a family. But the funny thing is with the Social assistance issue is i've also seen families who get paid $150 for babysitters for their children while they go out and drink and party, this is the part that blows me out of the water!! I defiantly think things like this is where all the abuse begins in the system.

I see what your saying, I don't think its fair for the people who sit home and do nothing, I guess I was more saying for the single parents out there working and still trying to get by. There is a new benifit out to that give families with children 6 and under 100 $ a month per child for day care expenses, now I don't think its fair that the people who sit home on welfare get this when they don't even send their children to a child care center and they more then likely still get money for babysitters!!

[ex0ticb3lla]

I don't agree that every child is entitled to the same about of child tax though, because there are some families that have 2 parent incomes and make ALOT more then other single parent families that can really use the money.

That comment bothered me.... So, basically, because someone out there chose to have 'relations' and make a baby with someone, and then didn't stay together with them they're entitled to more money???

It shouldn't be the governments fault that those people chose to make a baby with someone who doesn't pay child support (because that's the only way you could be a single mother with only 1 income).

I have a girlfriend who has 2 children (one 13, and one 7), both different dads. She's pregnant with twins (with the father from the first child, who hasn't paid child support in 13 years). He doesn't pay taxes and works under the table, yet they moved back intogether. So she ends up getting $700 a month for the two older kids, because she's a "single" mom, trying to raise 2 children on $10 an hour (meanwhile they make just as much as my husband combined). Who knows what the heck she'll be getting for baby bonus after her twins are born.

Yet my husband goes to work everyday and works his butt off, and we can only manage to get $125 a month (and I don't even work!!!!). We're not eligble for GST, and never will be (he makes too much on his own income), or working families supplement, or any other compensation the government gives. It's all because of people like my girlfriend who "scam" the government.


They're all for "saving" the low income families in Canada...but what about the middle income families who end up having to pay $25 - $30 a day in daycare (and unregulated at that), so that both parents can work to pay the bills!?

[LisaLisaBoBisa]

well it is on topic and off topic a little. child tax credits are not based on *are you on welfare or not* it is based on income bracket. So a working single mother making less than 20.000 would get the same child tax credit as a single mom on social assistance. I am now separated and when calculating the student loan I plan on taking out next year,, end up having a LARGE percentage of it forgiven.. because I have the dependant and only 1 income (why didnt i think of separation sooner? lolol) .. so I dunno -- these rebates are not based on how hard you work or how often -- just how much money you bring in at the end of the year.

[LisaLisaBoBisa]

ummm -- when you do your taxes do you transfer your unused claim amount to him? Meaning the 8200.00 (roughly) personal claim amount that you don't need because you have no income? Well if you do transfer it -- you are receiving a significant benefit there and if you don't you seriously should.

That comment bothered me.... So, basically, because someone out there chose to have 'relations' and make a baby with someone, and then didn't stay together with them they're entitled to more money???

It shouldn't be the governments fault that those people chose to make a baby with someone who doesn't pay child support (because that's the only way you could be a single mother with only 1 income).

I have a girlfriend who has 2 children (one 13, and one 7), both different dads. She's pregnant with twins (with the father from the first child, who hasn't paid child support in 13 years). He doesn't pay taxes and works under the table, yet they moved back intogether. So she ends up getting $700 a month for the two older kids, because she's a "single" mom, trying to raise 2 children on $10 an hour (meanwhile they make just as much as my husband combined). Who knows what the heck she'll be getting for baby bonus after her twins are born.

Yet my husband goes to work everyday and works his butt off, and we can only manage to get $125 a month (and I don't even work!!!!). We're not eligble for GST, and never will be (he makes too much on his own income), or working families supplement, or any other compensation the government gives. It's all because of people like my girlfriend who "scam" the government.


They're all for "saving" the low income families in Canada...but what about the middle income families who end up having to pay $25 - $30 a day in daycare (and unregulated at that), so that both parents can work to pay the bills!?

[ex0ticb3lla]

when I filled out my child tax form when I had my son in november, it asked for both parents incomes (regardless of whether you lived together or not), because in Ontario, as soon as you have lived together for 3 years OR had a child together, no matter how short a time together.

So when they determine your child tax credit, it should be based on both incomes, is that not correct!?

The only reason I ask this is because I always wonder how some "single" moms get away with a higher child tax credit.

[Meg1112]

Everyones story is different. Its a shame when the system get abused (drinking, gambling, smoking)

I know some people need it because they cant make it on their own at this time in their life.
but the ones that waste it, or cant try to do anything for them selves make me mad.

[LisaLisaBoBisa]

Plenty of now single moms have been married - separated or divorced. Rather than fault the women who are going out of their way to make a decent living and mother their children, you should fault the men who refuse to pay for those children. Not all single mothers are 15 yr old high school drops outs. And not all marriages are built to last -- astounds me that married women all think that their husband would never leave them in that position. Like somehow they are above it -- when I was married I surely didn't think my now ex husband and father to my child would chose not to pay -- but he has made that decision as have many other men. Something important for all women to think about -- even those who are married. Let me asure you I wasn't romanced by him saying *let's make a baby and then I'll leave you with all the responsibility"

It shouldn't be the governments fault that those people chose to make a baby with someone who doesn't pay child support (because that's the only way you could be a single mother with only 1 income).

[Sally888]

I think theres a time and place for it, some people really do need it and are actively looking for work

some people use it as a way of life, have kids that grow up on it, then when there old enough they get on it too.

I have no patience for the abusers of the system

[Meg1112]

I think theres a time and place for it, some people really do need it and are actively looking for work

some people use it as a way of life, have kids that grow up on it, then when there old enough they get on it too.

I have no patience for the abusers of the system

Well said Sally

[LisaLisaBoBisa]

well it is because they are SINGLE.. The only time it is based on both incomes is if you are married or common law.. Meaning actually checking the married or common law box.

For instance.. When I was still filing as married even though my husband was in the states -- we were separated by distance but not through breakdown of marital relations, I was required to report to the child tax and gst depts his *world income* --- another form to fill out and no credit would be issued unless he filed separately a return and world income statement (paying tax on foreign income)

as soon as I filed my own return as *separated* his income was no longer taken in to account for child tax or MY GST.. so even though I am still filing as separated going forward -- no more of his infor required for calculation..

when I filled out my child tax form when I had my son in november, it asked for both parents incomes (regardless of whether you lived together or not), because in Ontario, as soon as you have lived together for 3 years OR had a child together, no matter how short a time together.

So when they determine your child tax credit, it should be based on both incomes, is that not correct!?

The only reason I ask this is because I always wonder how some "single" moms get away with a higher child tax credit.

[ex0ticb3lla]

Plenty of now single moms have been married - separated or divorced. Rather than fault the women who are going out of their way to make a decent living and mother their children, you should fault the men who refuse to pay for those children. Not all single mothers are 15 yr old high school drops outs. And not all marriages are built to last -- astounds me that married women all think that their husband would never leave them in that position. Like somehow they are above it -- when I was married I surely didn't think my now ex husband and father to my child would chose not to pay -- but he has made that decision as have many other men. Something important for all women to think about -- even those who are married. Let me asure you I wasn't romanced by him saying *let's make a baby and then I'll leave you with all the responsibility"

That's hardly what I was saying..... Not all marriages ARE built to last. I don't ever take for granted one day that I have my husband is in my life. Some people are more lucky than others. I'm talking about the single moms (UN-married and hardly knew their babies dads) out there who think it their right to get a higher child tax and tax refund because they CHOSE to lay down. It is unfortunate when a MARRIAGE breaks down and men refuse to pay - - that's a whole seperate topic, I don't fault those women, and I surely have sympathy for them. But for people who start off from the get go in a bad situation and then continue on with the thought process that the government will take care of them, are the ones that deserve no respect. I know a lot of women like that (Barrie and Orillia are the baby making capitals of Ontario LOL), and trust me, they aren't 15 year old highschool drop outs.