Deals, Questions, Info. General Chatting and Skanky Mischief

[Arielmac]

J'arrive pas à croire comment ça dégénère. L'association étudiante en cause (CLASSE) ne revendique pas officiellement, mais ne condamne pas non plus ces actes "isolés".Est-ce qu'on peut commencer à parler de désobéissance civile dans de tesl cas? Dommage, on risque de créer un malaise dans la population même.
C'est la génération de demain, celle qui va gouverner.

C'est aussi mon point de vu, le contraire de condamné c'est quoi encore?
Il y a déja un malaise, je me suis presque pogné avec une de mes amies sur un de ses status facebook parce que je trouve qu'elle exagère sa réaction a la "joke" de Charest. Je vois constament des status dénoncant les hausses, la "brutalité policière", le fait que le gouvernement ne veut pas bouger mais rarement sur le vandalisme qui a été fait. J'ai d'ailleurs fait ma montée de lait sur facebook comparant les protestataires a des enfants qui piquent une crisse dans un magasin pcq ils n'ont pas la bébelle oou le bonbon qu'ils veulent.

C'est mon 2 ieme building d'étudiant et quand je les voit entrer avec des caisses de biere, des bouteilles de vin ou de fort, laissez des meubles/appareils électronique/rideaux/linges/vaisselles etc dans l'appart quand ils déménagent juste pcq ils sont plus "in" et qu'ils vont en acheter du neuf, qu'ils sortent dans les clubs tout les weekend et se soulent la gueule mais quand tu leur parles de faire du couponning pour économiser, soit qu'ils rient de toi ou disent qu'ils n'ont pas le temps. BULL!

[Patty Smyth]

Oh Ariel , I didn't know you had student buildings , I can't imagine what it must look like after they leave. I had friends that used to rent out downtown and they caused so much damage, not by vandalism mostly just neglect. It's just as bad when they come and go and don't do a bloody thing.'
'
Anyhoo I am waiting for someone to get killed and then we will see real action. That head of CLASSE need a real dose of reality as do they all. Mama et papa won't be happy when they have to bail these kids out and pay for their tuition.

Can you imagine yesterday when they were throwing rocks if one of the rocks had gone down into the ville marie tunnel???

[Patty Smyth]

Abouret have you thought about looking at a Marche aux Puces? Not the garbage ones the merchant ones.

[Arielmac]

Oh Ariel , I didn't know you had student buildings , I can't imagine what it must look like after they leave. I had friends that used to rent out downtown and they caused so much damage, not by vandalism mostly just neglect. It's just as bad when they come and go and don't do a bloody thing.'
'
Anyhoo I am waiting for someone to get killed and then we will see real action. That head of CLASSE need a real dose of reality as do they all. Mama et papa won't be happy when they have to bail these kids out and pay for their tuition.

Can you imagine yesterday when they were throwing rocks if one of the rocks had gone down into the ville marie tunnel???

I have working/retired people too but mostly students since I am so close to Concordia I would throw a rock to the protesters....

[AnnieP]

Le plus choquant, c'est que tout plein d'étudiants sont très corrects, prennent les études au sérieux et vont même TRAVAILLER. J'ai parlé avec quelques "contestataires" de cette hausse. La plupart ne travaille même pas (soir ou fin de semaine) mais sont sur le PARTY. Certaines têtes brûlées font payer le prix fort à tous les autres.
Nos impôts ne supportent plus tous les programmes sociaux mis en place par les gouvernements précédents: pourquoi dans ce cas aurions-nous à payer pour une éducation qui permettra à un étudiant de faire un salaire plus élevé s'il n'est même pas reconnaissant de la réalité budgétaire (voire trèsssssss déficitaire) du Québec.

Le vandalisme, les menaces, le grabuge, les manifestations, le chaos social. Un mot me vient en tête: R-E-S-P-E-C-T. S'ils ne savent pas ce que c'est présentement, ils ne le sauront jamais.

Désolée que je suis, il fallait que ça sorte.

Oh Ariel , I didn't know you had student buildings , I can't imagine what it must look like after they leave. I had friends that used to rent out downtown and they caused so much damage, not by vandalism mostly just neglect. It's just as bad when they come and go and don't do a bloody thing.'
'
Anyhoo I am waiting for someone to get killed and then we will see real action. That head of CLASSE need a real dose of reality as do they all. Mama et papa won't be happy when they have to bail these kids out and pay for their tuition.

Can you imagine yesterday when they were throwing rocks if one of the rocks had gone down into the ville marie tunnel???

[MiaowTheCat]

First of all, let me say I am coming from the USA perspective, where educational costs have become so atrociously expensive that a person either 1) has debt for the rest of his/her life (we are not talking about small debt either, in the area of $150K-$200K debt for many!) OR 2) lives off a wage that is so measly and it's a dang struggle for the rest of his life. One of the loveliest things I encountered here in Quebec WAS that students were able to work a part-time job and/or have a small loan from the government or help from their parents and MAKE it, ie be able to afford a shared apartment, eat well, etc. You do not have that in the State without extreme debt!!!!

Another problem is that when kids DO decide to go to university in the States, they don't want to study something like engineering or something technical because they know they will be saddled with so much money to pay back that they have to go into something BIG like business or medicine. This is actually becoming a big problem in the States: an influx of graduating students going into "business" (read: Goldman Sachs) and not nearly enough kids taking on professions that will actually BENEFIT society. This happens, IMO, when we make society too much about money and not about a well-balanced economy.

They are saying that most universities are not well funded but most $$ that goes to universities is used for research (for higher level students). So what you end up with is first cycle students paying for third cycle students.

Just seeing education as a commercial "item" that you should profit from, is wrong IMO. That is an investment in society, a crucial part of it in fact. You don't want a situation like the States where we have vast, vast differences in income and accessibility to education slowly being only available to the rich. Education should be a right, not a privilege. It is a slippery slope to go on by raising tuition costs 75%. Where does it end? They need to raise taxes on companies, and ask universities to cut costs on administration staff. My DH works at a university and over the years, has seen the administration double but the amount of professors has remained stagnant. When you have too much bureaucracy, too many admins, that is a huge part of your budget right there.

Charest is just looking for a topic to divert peoples' attention from what he did (or what he never did ) and all his short-comings. He's making people fight over a fringe of the population that is weaker than them (students). What people tend to forget is that they are being fed this stuff that government is in despair, but most of debt has been created since Charest has come to power.

I'm saddened, because raising tuition to this extent is not sustainable. Take this from someone who escaped the US for this reason. I didn't want to be riddled with debt for the rest of my life, so I decided to come here. I paid more since I was a "foreigner" but I am grateful for having a solid education at a fraction of the cost.

I saw the protests last night downtown, while we were out for a walk. I believe I saw the earlier parts of the protest and they were very peaceful. The cops, however, already had helmets on and some had their whole faces covered by masks and were driving their cars aggressively in the opposite direction of traffic trying to follow the students on Ste-Catherine. I saw probably about 50 kids and in return, countless police SUVs. It was overkill in ratio to how many were protesting.

I am also going to go out on a limb and say that most of the students who live downtown in buildings such as those run by ArielMac are either out of province OR foreign students who do not have the same interest in this fight as born and bred Quebecers. I went through many years of being a student and lived in a few places during that time, and my observations were that the foreigners "with money" (in my case, Saudis) were the dirtiest and least respectful because they have an attitude of entitlement.
I highly doubt that the children of those ladies who post here will end up like that! Let's not ruin it for the whole student population because of some bad apples who couldn't care less about this fight anyway.

[2010ontest]

Miaow, I have master level degree too, my husband also and he his doing a second master right now...

but no, we didn't approve what a minority of student do right now. unfortunatly I'm thinking like Arielmac because this is what I saw when I was university student myself and when I was working at university before I decided to stay at home with my young kids.

J'ai vu trop d'étudiant et de jeunes adultes se comporter en adolescent jusqu'à l'âge de 30-35 ans en refilant la facture à la société et j'ai beaucoup de difficulté à cautionner ça encore maintenant. J'ai vu trop d'étudiant faire la fête et le party à l'année longue et se faire financer leur rumba par leur parents et la société. Il faut devenir adulte un jour et c'est souhaitable que ceci arrive avant d'avoir déjà 30-35 ans à mon avis.

[AnnieP]

Thanks Ontest.
You said it right.

Miaow, I have master level degree too, my husband also and he his doing a second master right now...

but no, we didn't approve what a minority of student do right now. unfortunatly I'm thinking like Arielmac because this is what I saw when I was university student myself and when I was working at university before I decided to stay at home with my young kids.

J'ai vu trop d'étudiant et de jeunes adultes se comporter en adolescent jusqu'à l'âge de 30-35 ans en refilant la facture à la société et j'ai beaucoup de difficulté à cautionner ça encore maintenant. J'ai vu trop d'étudiant faire la fête et le party à l'année longue et se faire financer leur rumba par leur parents et la société. Il faut devenir adulte un jour et c'est souhaitable que ceci arrive avant d'avoir déjà 30-35 ans à mon avis.

[Patty Smyth]

I have a neighbor who works atr McGill and he told me that 80% of their students are from out of country or province and they KNOW they have it made with the low tuition fees so they are not protesting. Many of the students I know have jobs and their parents are paying towards their tuition. In our case we have been putting aide money since the kids were born in a trust fund for their eduation. At least we are trying. I feel for the kids whose parents don't pay anything but the VIOLENCE that is happening now is not the answer and frankly I think their are big unions and radicals(not even students) who are doing this now.

[2010ontest]

I have a neighbor who works atr McGill and he told me that 80% of their students are from out of country or province and they KNOW they have it made with the low tuition fees so they are not protesting. Many of the students I know have jobs and their parents are paying towards their tuition. In our case we have been putting aide money since the kids were born in a trust fund for their eduation. At least we are trying. I feel for the kids whose parents don't pay anything but the VIOLENCE that is happening now is not the answer and frankly I think their are big unions and radicals(not even students) who are doing this now.

And you know, international tuitions fees at McGill or other University here are higher than what people from here pay.

I know some students have a job to afford tuition fees, I feel for those who work hard to be there, and are very grateful of the education they received...

but I know also that many (too many) of students are not grateful of that and just wastes alot.

Unfortunatly, I don't thing the student asking (or manipulate to ask) for "free" education are the grateful one

[Arielmac]

I have students from a bit everywhere but out of province Student, American students, European (except France) and Asian students are the more serious ones. I think they understand what the value of money is and what the value of the education they are receiving is.

I don't wish to offend anyone but those are mainly my observation in the years I have been taking care of those buildings. It's mostly Quebecers and French that are immature about the whole experience and don't care much about spending someone else's money for their own benefit and especially fun.

Out of province, International students and Americans buy cheap furniture and/or sell what they don't need before they leave. Quebecers just leave stuff there, French throw them out (often by the window, sadly) and they leave valuable stuff.

I just spoke with a student from Italy that was telling us that at Concordia, they had representative from every department for the strike vote present. The numbers of representative depends on how big the department is. The biggest department they have is Political science. They had 77 representative. When it came time to vote it was by a raise a hand. Representative from other departments got the evil eye from the political department people if they didn't raise their hands in favor of the strike.

[AnnieP]

You know Patty, i'm not rich. I made some choice regarding my kids education. We have everything we need (home, clothes, food). We don't spend money for thing we don't really need. I save for my kids' future. They all have funds for the education. That way, they'll start life without money problem. I made choice for them to have a good life, I assume it. I hope when they'll be tall enough, they'll remember their roots. I teach them to respect others, people's stuff and never do something they could regret.
You're right when you say Violence is not a solution.

I have a neighbor who works atr McGill and he told me that 80% of their students are from out of country or province and they KNOW they have it made with the low tuition fees so they are not protesting. Many of the students I know have jobs and their parents are paying towards their tuition. In our case we have been putting aide money since the kids were born in a trust fund for their eduation. At least we are trying. I feel for the kids whose parents don't pay anything but the VIOLENCE that is happening now is not the answer and frankly I think their are big unions and radicals(not even students) who are doing this now.

[snuffaluffagus]

Oh Ariel , I didn't know you had student buildings , I can't imagine what it must look like after they leave.

Only one time did my father rent out to university students from Ontario. I won't go into detail but it cost him 10 000$ out of pocket to repair the damage they left behind. It cost the second floor tenants another 5 000$ in insurance claims when buddies of the students decided to break in and trash the place. Know what the parents of the tenants said? "Your frustration is an exaggeration, Mr. P. Kids will be kids." I'm glad I wasn't there; I would not have been capable to show the restraint my father did. Needless to say, my father never rented to students again as he wasn't willing to ever take such a risk again. What a shame.

Can you imagine yesterday when they were throwing rocks if one of the rocks had gone down into the ville marie tunnel???

Media van windows (TVA) were smashed along St. Urbain street near Rene-Levesque yesterday. Rocks and garbage were thrown onto the Ville Marie as well. I drove through it (took me nearly an hour to get to it with the blocked and rerouted traffic) on my way home from work.

A week or so ago when one of the protests was broken up downtown, at least 150 students decided to take it up the Main. When they passed the store, three of them started slapping and punching the windows all the while screaming something unintelligible. It scared the crap out of all those inside (one poor little girl burst into tears because many of the students also had their faces painted as if they were bleeding). If they think this sort of behavior, in addition to the ongoing vandalism, is going to encourage support from the general public, ie. taxpayers paying most of their tuition....I don't think even a university education will be of any help to them and money spent on them would be a total waste in those cases .

I'm going to go out on a limb here...this is my personal opinion only and I truly don't mean to offend anyone. Quebec has been in debt and a "give me" province long before Charest was voted into power. We are a society of few extremely wealthy, a drastically declining middle class, an increasing working-poor class, the welfare class, and the folk with no class at all (pun intended). The wealthy can pick up and move themselves and their businesses any time they so choose. The "give me" class (I will stress here that I mean those who feel entitled to make it their lifestyle to take advantage of any social programs without making any valuable contributions in turn to the society in which they live) that will stay as long as there are free handouts. Middle class and the educated are also more capable of leaving if necessary. The welfare class has very few choices. Who does that leave to support society? The working poor. Is this what we want for the future of our province? I think the majority of hardworking taxpayers are shouldering much more than they deserve to. For goodness sake, they should be the ones protesting for being taken advantage of. I think it's time for everyone, including students, to take responsibility for their life choices. You want a higher education? Then be willing to assume more of the investment which, in the future, will benefit you first and foremost! Even with these raises, Quebec's tuition is still among the lowest in Canada. We should be grateful about that, not act like a bunch of uneducated, spoiled, tantrumming brats.

This was a letter sent in to the Gazette a few days ago. It pretty much sums up what I believe the silent majority is really feeling about this whole issue. I really wish more folk would be as courageous to speak out like this man.

I don’t wear a red square of cloth. There is no room in my budget for fashion accessories. I buy bananas when they’re cheap to jazz up my peanut-butter sandwiches. I can’t tell you how much I hate peanut-butter sandwiches.

I’m a working stiff, earning minimum wage in a dead-end job downtown. I wake up and go to bed trying to support my wife and kids. I stopped buying 6/49 tickets long ago. A banana takes me farther than the dream of winning big.
I want you guys to know that when you disrupt the métro with a bag of bricks, or a smoke bomb, you bring a world of pain to people like me who are just trying to make ends meet.
Take off your masks and look in the mirror: you are not on the side of angels. Not when you make life hard for those of us who know the world as a real thing.
Ron Huza

Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/Lette...#ixzz1sj3NMbPw

[snuffaluffagus]

You know Patty, i'm not rich. I made some choice regarding my kids education. We have everything we need (home, clothes, food). We don't spend money for thing we don't really need. I save for my kids' future. They all have funds for the education. That way, they'll start life without money problem. I made choice for them to have a good life, I assume it. I hope when they'll be tall enough, they'll remember their roots. I teach them to respect others, people's stuff and never do something they could regret.
You're right when you say Violence is not a solution.

I wish there was a "stand up and applaud" button for this post .

[couponlinda]

Wow - I was coming on this thread to ask if anyone had connections to get me one direction tickets and started reading about the student protest........what kills me is they are protesting the hike - which is not that much - i know my daughter is in concordia and i pay her tuition......i just wish these protesters would protest for tax hikes, no jobs, our failing health system - against the berger blanc for killing animals, against our f'd-up government for wasting money on crap.....i could go on and on......