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Thread: !!WTF!! Man who beheaded bus passenger wins right to escorted day trips

  1. #16
    Contradiction in progress sweet sparrow's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone disagrees about being punished for wrong actions, but most people seem to disagree about the degree of punishment.

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    Canadian Guru DaveP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweet sparrow View Post
    I don't think anyone disagrees about being punished for wrong actions, but most people seem to disagree about the degree of punishment.
    I kind of do disagree with wanting to punish. Evil people, yes absolutely. Hang em high! But sick people...?

    Control. Treatment.

    Anything else makes us worse than they are, and we don't have the excuse they do.
    Last edited by DaveP; Tue, May 22nd, 2012 at 10:31 PM.
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    Contradiction in progress sweet sparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
    I kind of do disagree with wanting to punish. Evil people, yes absolutely. Hang em high! But sick people...?

    Control. Treatment.

    Anything else makes us worse than they are, and we don't have the excuse they do.
    I agree. I think if he was confined for a period of time until his illness was under control, monitored for the proper dosage, it is a consequence of his actions. But this is not punishment.

    As punishment, some people may want a certain number of years in prison, etc., but I think his isolation from society is a form of punishment, even if for his own protection. People are not going to try to understand his condition and it's much less effort to hide behind what they think is righteous anger. If he as he says, would do anything for the family and knows he can do nothing to make up for what he's done, I think his guilt is punishment enough. He's not a seasoned criminal, he's a 44-year-old who has never had a criminal record.

    In the article lecale posted, he said he could never be happy and never forget. He believes he needs to be monitored and be under a treatment order. I wouldn't wish his self-imposed guilt on anyone. I don't mind using my tax dollars on his treatment as he needs help.

    I do mind funding the university education of Karla Holmolka. If she worked for a Queen's degree on minimum wage and had high enough qualifying marks to secure a spot like the rest of us, I'd feel a lot better about that. But, I feel much more strongly about her punishment than I do for Vince Li.
    Last edited by sweet sparrow; Wed, May 23rd, 2012 at 07:45 AM.
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    Canadian Guru DaveP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweet sparrow View Post

    I do mind funding the university education of Karla Holmolka. If she worked for a Queen's degree on minimum wage and had high enough qualifying marks to secure a spot like the rest of us, I'd feel a lot better about that. But, I feel much more strongly about her punishment than I do for Vince Li.
    Yes. Now THAT one is evil. She should have been sent to jail until the jail crumbled. Then had a new jail built around her.
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    Smart Canuck frugal50's Avatar
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    i still he should be deported back to China and let the authorites handle him there- why should Canadian taxpayers foot his bills.

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    Canadian Guru DaveP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal50 View Post
    i still he should be deported back to China and let the authorites handle him there- why should Canadian taxpayers foot his bills.

    Because he's a Canadian citizen who is ill.

    Many Canadian citizens originate from other countries - we have the highest per-capita immigration rate in the world. Should we send everyone who gets sick here back to their original home even though they chose to become full Canadian citizens?

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    Senior Canuck Kalmel's Avatar
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    Dear, dear... the guy beheaded someone darn head and hate part of it!....seriously! Not too sure if this happen to your son or daughter some of you would still respond the same... i cannot even begin to imagine me being on this bus with my 7 years old daughter and something like this would happen to her.... I strongly beleive he should never ever be any way shape or form be free...

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    Canadian Guru DaveP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmel View Post
    Dear, dear... the guy beheaded someone darn head and hate part of it!....seriously! Not too sure if this happen to your son or daughter some of you would still respond the same... i cannot even begin to imagine me being on this bus with my 7 years old daughter and something like this would happen to her.... I strongly beleive he should never ever be any way shape or form be free...
    What he did was horrific, everyone agrees. But he was delusional, sick, profoundly sick - a sick I hope nobody here ever has to live through. Can you imagine how awful it is to not be able to trust your own mind? That an innocent young man died because of his illness is utterly tragic. Niow that he's not delusional I'd bet he'd give anything to bring that young man back, to erase the past. I want him treated and monitored, not punished. Evil people like Michael Rafferty and Terri-Lynne McClintic who abducted raped and killed an 8 year old girl right here in Nova Scotia are the type of people I want to see punished, want to see buried under the jail. Not the mentally ill.
    Last edited by DaveP; Wed, May 23rd, 2012 at 12:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumpersmom View Post
    I understand completely that he is ill and is not completely responsible for his actions but at some point we need to "punish" any offender that commits such a heinous crime. Should he be hospitalized and treated for his illness. Absolutely! Should he be able to go to McDonalds. No! He has forfeited his right for out of hospital forays.
    Taking him to McDonald's should be considered a punishment.

    Are we going to punish his illness forever? I think the supervised outings will do him more good than harm. I think that you have to dissociate the person from the illness when you look at this case.
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    Contradiction in progress sweet sparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugal50 View Post
    why should Canadian taxpayers foot his bills.
    I suppose it's the same reason why my tax dollars go to support disabled people on welfare. They're people who can't help having a disability. I don't think any sane person would choose that path and it's more than silly to believe a university-educated computer engineer would.

    No one denies that it's a terrible, terrible thing to happen to anyone. If it happened to someone I knew or my own family, I really do hope I would respond the same way. I'd hope that I'd be able to meet him in person and accept his apology and be able to help - in time though, I'm still human.

    I don't believe he belongs in the same league as Paul Bernardo and Robert Pickton. Didn't the latter say he hated prostitutes and believed he was doing a favour to society? Those girls were someone's daughters, and their lives had value.
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    .
    Last edited by lecale; Sat, Aug 18th, 2012 at 11:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
    Evil people like Michael Rafferty and Terri-Lynne McClintic who abducted raped and killed an 8 year old girl right here in Nova Scotia are the type of people I want to see punished, want to see buried under the jail.
    Actually, those wastes of oxygen are in my neck of the woods (Woodstock, ON).

    I wonder, though, at what point do we draw the line at what is & isn't considered mental illness. Quite frankly, I don't understand how anyone who commits a crime can be considered sane.

    What I find most disturbing is that the ones crying loudest for understanding of this individual's illness stayed silent when CAS threatened to take away that physically disabled couple's child.

    As for Mr Li, from what I've seen in the media, there doesn't seem to be true remorse there.

    Years ago, I had a bad reaction to a blood pressure pill I was taking (I felt yucky & it made me very cranky). I was out with a friend who was having issues with her then bf. When her phone rang & I could see her getting upset over what he was saying, I grabbed the phone from her & told him to stop being a jerk & act like a real man who doesn't make a girl cry. To this day, I feel guilty about doing that & using the choice language I did. & yet, my friend has long forgiven me & has fogotten all about the incident.

    Getting back to Mr Li, I know a few folks struggling with Schizophrenia. Even on their bad days, I would trust them with my critters (& that's saying a lot!). My opinion (& it is only that) is that Mr Li had violent tendancies which were exasperated by his illness, not that the illness was the sole cause of the violence.

    I do have a question - if a brittle diabetic (blood sugar goes wonky without warning) gets behind the wheel of a car & runs over several folks, what punishment would be appropriate? I remember several years back, a case such as this where the diabetic was given a 20 yr sentence.

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    Canadian Guru DaveP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andit View Post
    Actually, those wastes of oxygen are in my neck of the woods (Woodstock, ON).
    My mistake. I'm not sure why I thought they were closer to home. Maybe because I have kids that age and it's covered so much here on the local news.

    I wonder, though, at what point do we draw the line at what is & isn't considered mental illness. Quite frankly, I don't understand how anyone who commits a crime can be considered sane.
    True. But delusional is a different thing than choosing to commit evil acts.

    What I find most disturbing is that the ones crying loudest for understanding of this individual's illness stayed silent when CAS threatened to take away that physically disabled couple's child.
    I didnt. I supported their right to raise their child 100%.

    As for Mr Li, from what I've seen in the media, there doesn't seem to be true remorse there.
    There does. English is not his first language. I've lived most of my life with people who did not have English as their first language. I look beyond simple words, and take in tone, facial expressions, other body language. I believe he's genuine. He is a tortured soul.

    Years ago, I had a bad reaction to a blood pressure pill I was taking (I felt yucky & it made me very cranky). I was out with a friend who was having issues with her then bf. When her phone rang & I could see her getting upset over what he was saying, I grabbed the phone from her & told him to stop being a jerk & act like a real man who doesn't make a girl cry. To this day, I feel guilty about doing that & using the choice language I did. & yet, my friend has long forgiven me & has fogotten all about the incident.

    Getting back to Mr Li, I know a few folks struggling with Schizophrenia. Even on their bad days, I would trust them with my critters (& that's saying a lot!). My opinion (& it is only that) is that Mr Li had violent tendancies which were exasperated by his illness, not that the illness was the sole cause of the violence.
    If he had violent tendencies prior to his illness it's odd that he had no criminal record prior to his psychotic break. it was the illness, not him.

    I do have a question - if a brittle diabetic (blood sugar goes wonky without warning) gets behind the wheel of a car & runs over several folks, what punishment would be appropriate? I remember several years back, a case such as this where the diabetic was given a 20 yr sentence.
    Does blood sugar wonkiness impair thinking? If so, that should be a mitigating factor if the person was unaware that not properly managing their blood sugar would lead to that.
    Last edited by DaveP; Wed, May 23rd, 2012 at 01:30 PM.
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    Last edited by lecale; Sat, Aug 18th, 2012 at 11:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
    My mistake. I'm not sure why I thought they were closer to home. Maybe because I have kids that age and it's covered so much here on the local news.
    I don't think anyone wants to claim them as their own.


    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
    True. But delusional is a different thing than choosing to commit evil acts.
    Agreed. But if someone slugs an innocent bystander because they feel yucky from chemo or dialysis, should they get a free pass?


    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
    I didnt. I supported their right to raise their child 100%.
    Sorry, I should have qualified that. I was referring to the usual suspects who like to hear their own voices on the media outlets. The same folks who scream blue murder about discrimination were silent when it came to protecting the rights of those with a physical disability.


    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
    There does. English is not his first language. I've lived most of my life with people who did not have English as their first language. I look beyond simple words, and take in tone, facial expressions, other body language. I believe he's genuine. He is a tortured soul.
    Maybe it's because this is the first I've heard of any sort of remorse - when he wants permission to go on an excursion. Granted, it may have taken him this long to realize the gravity of what he did.


    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
    If he had violent tendencies prior to his illness it's odd that he had no criminal record prior to his psychotic break. it was the illness, not him.
    Maybe. But we don't really know what happened back in China. From what I understand, China is much like the Soviet Union (worst serial killer ever lived in a place where crime did not exist, at least not according to official records).


    Quote Originally Posted by DaveP View Post
    Does blood sugar wonkiness impair thinking? If so, that should be a mitigating factor if the person was unaware that not properly managing their blood sugar would lead to that.
    When I was diabetic, an idiot of a specialist put me on a *new* type of insulin. I was perfectly fine one minute, a second or 2 later, I was walking into traffic, completely oblivious. If I had been on my own, I would not be here today (thank goodness for friends with quick reflexes). That was the first time that had ever happened.
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