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Thread: So Disappointed

  1. #121
    momof5boys
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckbealady View Post
    I've actually considered getting a programmer degree, as that is something a lot of the interview I went to mentioned wanting. But it's a 3-4 year program, and I can't take on that much more debt. I think a big thing that might hold me back is not having a driver's license. I can't afford insurance, and live in a city, so I let my permit expire. There have been a few good interviews, but they required me to be able to drive for on-site computer solutions. I was a telemarketer for a little bit, but I couldn't push for those sales (I really wanted to be good at my job, but every customer I pictured as a relative, and how I wouldn't want to convince them to buy a credit card they don't want or need).

    I'd also like to add that I don't drink, I don't smoke, and I don't go out to clubs. Every couple of months I'll go to a movie on cheap night, if I've managed to save some money somewhere. I'm sad that I'm having to move back home (especially considering I'm in my twenties and am very independent), but it's a big relief to not have to stress quite as much about not only paying my own bills, but also about my parent's finances, as they are helping me pay my bills.
    Wishing you all the best...my hubby was out of work for nearly two years and knows about the discouragement of going for interviews, only to be rejected because of his age. Hopefully you will be able to find some volunteer work between interviews to keep busy....and volunteer work also looks great on a resume. Sounds like you have a great family....what a blessing...that is what families are for - to truly help one another in time of need. Also, have you checked out your local employment office to see what they have to offer in terms of upgrading your training? There could be programs/funding in place for this. As someone once told me, "behind the clouds the sun is shining" so stay positive!!!

  2. #122
    Cat Trainer (Trainee??) Andit's Avatar
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    "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." Unfortunately, somewhere in the last 2 millenia since Plato spoke these words, we seem to have lost the ability to differentiate between kindness and enabling, compassion and pity. I don't understand why these days it is so acceptable to not take responsibility for one's actions, to blame "society" for all that is wrong in one's life.

    Everyone has a story, some sort of turmoil in life. Life is neither easy nor fair. Nor should it be.

    As far as studies are concerned, well, Mark Twain said it best: "There are three kinds of lies - lies, damned lies and statistics". Anyone who works with numbers knows how easy it is to manipulate data to support whatever your thesis might be (unfortunately, it's not like making widgets where there's not a lot of wiggle room).

    Getting back to the OP, I don't understand how someone on Ontario Works (or whatever the welfare system is called in a particular area) is able to purchase anything other than basic necessities. Sorry, but if you have the means to pay for alcohol, tobacco, illicit habits, then clearly you have too much money to be on OW.

    Here's my (very very long) story (cut short) - a couple of decades as a Type 1 diabetic (juvenile diabetes back in the day) led to kidney failure & dialysis. Add in freaky complications that are in teeny print at the bottom of medical texts (cause I like to do things my own way ), & I will never be able to work full time, even with a double transplant (kidney & pancreas). In order to keep my brain from turning to mush, I started volunteering 3 hrs a week (which the company now pays, as I'm a p/t employee). I have to jump through hoops to tell ODSP about this job & report what I earn. I also have to make sure on days I go out, to get extra rest, pace myself, & sometimes spend the next day barely able to move. My housing costs are roughly $950/month, which leaves about $50/month for food for the 3 of us (dog & cat eat better than I do ). What little I earn goes towards phone/internet/piggy bank for vet visits.

    In terms of what I have to do to get ODSP, once every year or so, I have an "interview". I am expected to bring bank statements to show what money I have, doctors' statements about my health issues (prescriptions, any changes to my condition, etc), copies of my living costs, copies of phone bills (I have only a basic phone). For a while I was getting "spot checks" where I would get a phone call asking how much cash I had on hand.

    Quite frankly, if they asked me for a blood test to see what meds were in my system, I would be perfectly fine with that. AFAIC, they have every right to ask me whatever & test me for whatever in order for me to be eligible. Why on earth should I be offended?

    Some folks would be horrified by my situation. I think my life is pretty darn good.

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  3. #123
    Just Jez
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    *borrowing Fallen Pixels Mod Hat*....looking around things seem to have settled down.....thank you...

  4. #124
    coupon skank emeritus mcminsen's Avatar
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  5. #125
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    If our government has to be accountable for our tax dollars (i.e how they spend - what they charge to the Canadian tax payer), why shouldn't the welfare recipients of our hard earned tax dollars be as well?

    The system needs to be changed. There is abuse, percentage wise who knows, but there are also a lot of good hard working people on social assistance. I have seen both sides of the coin on this one

    I believe the program needs more structure, I for one am all for drug tests on illegal substances - why should my hard earned tax dollars be paying criminal drug dealers?
    Smoking and alcohol - slippery slope, both legal substances and quite frankly that is a major judgement call that nobody would be willing to make - where do you draw the line after that?

    Opinions are like a*%holes, everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks

  6. #126
    Smart Canuck Pinkypie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JennyFromTheRock View Post
    You are so wrong. Its the other way around, the MAJORITY of people are abusing it.
    So friggin true!
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  7. #127
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    When I commented earlier, I didn't mean that I am opposed to welfare. I'm not. I think it's important that there is a temporary helping hand when things are tough. The part I am opposed to is how easily it is abused, and how often it is abused. Someone earlier made a comment on how social workers have too many cases as it is. If the gov't were stricter with how welfare dollars were spent (not allowing as much abuse) then there would be extra money left to hire more social workers to monitor spending more, as some of the people who were abusing it wouldn't be able to live the life-style they wanted. And who says Social workers have to do the monitoring? If it's computerized on a debit card, the monitoring could be clerical. If further action was needed because of unauthorized spending, the social worker could be alerted and make contact with the person who is abusing it.

    An honest person on welfare shouldn't mind having to pay for their life necessities with a monitored spending card. They wouldn't be withdrawing cash to pay for their case of beer or $110 Silver Jeans, so it shouldn't affect them negatively because they are grateful to get some assistance to help them through a rough patch. I know there would still be ways to abuse the system, but my point is there is alot that can be done to make abusing the system a little harder.

    Are there people out there who truly need welfare and aren't abusing it? Of course! And they are the people who should be getting it. Are there people on welfare who abuse it just because they can? Of course! And that's where monitored spending would help.
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  8. #128
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    <removed comment>I can say for absolute 100% confidence that the majority of people on welfare do not abuse the system. Before you think to argue this point with me, know that I have been a Caseworker in a large Welfare office (now more respectfully called Ontario Works) for almost 20 years. I am shaking as I write this because I am angry on behalf of all my clients. Some are down and out temporarily, some are single parents struggling with a lack of support from the other parent, some suffer from health concerns or mental illness. Ontario Works offices have measures in place to ensure a lack of fraud and participation in productive activities.
    I am so glad that I come to work everyday with a supportive, motivating, giving attitude and not the attitudes stated above. What you see as a welfare bum might just be a person struggling with depression and thinking of ending it all. That cigarette might be their only pleasure. That beer might be alcoholism that they are struggling to recover from. Everyone has their demons, including the poor.
    I can honestly say that I love my job and I am happy that I can counteract the misperceptions that certain people in society have of Ontario Works clients. My client's are human beings! Don't judge until you have had to live in their shoes because you might just be one paycheck away from being in line with them...wouldn't you want to be treated with decency.
    Last edited by FallenPixels; Fri, Sep 14th, 2012 at 10:46 AM.

  9. #129
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    Thank you a hundred times over for your post, TIMMYS.
    So many coupons....so little time!

  10. #130
    Smart Canuck sharkie's Avatar
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    wow what a very interesting thread....a very interesting topic, so I guess I will add my two cents worth...lol

    First off I do not see how that picture could be offensive..I find it to be true....I do not mind my tax dollars going people who really need it..But why should I pay for people to smoke, drink, drive cars, their cell phones and all the extras they feel they are entitled to?

    Every month like clock work I donate to a local food bank and a women's shelter...I love doing this and helping people...The one thing that gets me so angry is people that cry poverty and use the food banks every month like it is a grocery store..I know the cost of smoking.( I have the bad habit) and I know the cost of cell phones, internet and auto insurance....I do not classify those a necessities...Sure maybe a basic home phone for those that have kids in case of emergencies....

    I do not understand how people on assistance can think for one moment they are entilted to this...at a cost of between $200 and $300 dollars a month for all combined....that is crazy...they should be buying food with this money and not depending on food banks....

    Very recently my dh almost lost his arm in a work related accident and had to go on worker's comp...he paid into this for years from the time he started working as a teenager...when he went on comp he never got his full pay and never got nothing handed to him...we had to make concessions in our life during this time, like not so many trips to Tim Horton's, no garage sales for me.lol and lots of other stuff we had to give up....sure it was not easy to give up things we liked but we had to think about our budget and the things that were important...

    So no I do not find the photo on Facebook offensive...I truly believe it to be true....As a matter of fact I am going to try to find the pic and post it to my facebook page....I fully support it....I am tired paying out for other peoples wants....maybe if they had to work for it they would see that it does not come easy and they might appreciate it and see they are not entitled to it....
    Last edited by sharkie; Fri, Sep 14th, 2012 at 10:37 AM.
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  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronwen View Post
    The thing is people make these comments yet are so ignorant (in the truest sense of the word, meaning uninformed).

    I myself have been on assistance years ago when I was going through a rough time. I spent this money on rent (lived with MIL) and food. I was luckily only on it for a few months because I was able to get help from DH's family and I found a job. So I know how much they give a single person and do you know how much that is? Probably not if you're paying $60, 000 a year in taxes yikes! You get $480 a month. I have heard some people get up to $580. This does NOT pay your rent and no they do not cover your rent for you. They do not give you food stamps (as far as I know this is an American thing, maybe it's different in other provinces I live in Ontario) , and you're allowed to visit the food bank once a MONTH. Again, not sure the rules in other provinces but this is the case where I live. So people are supposed to pay rent and bills and buy food with $480 a month yet rent even with room mates is usually that price alone.

    Maybe the reason parents sold their kids' textbooks and accepted new ones is to pay for food and clothes for their kids. Do you accept a tax break on things you're eligible for? Do you hand in receipts to get money back? Why? Because you're entitled to. If it's something they offer, and they can make a bit of money back to send their kids to school with new shoes I personally don't see any harm in it.

    When you say, 'If they want cash, get a job' you are forgetting about those who are slow (yes sadly some slow people have family who leave them to fend for themselves and I have seen so many people struggling and on welfare because of this), have abused drugs so are dealing with mental issues due to that, or had a rough past and have criminal records therefor are turned down for jobs. I know that a lot of Ontario Works offices require you to be actively seeking jobs and help you apply and need to see proof. This is helpful for them in some ways, especially those who have never been taught how to write up a resume, etc. It's hard to find a job for someone without these issues, at least where I live it is!

    I guess I would just like to see some compassion rather than slander. In the end, if you really want something done about the situation, you should volunteer some way to try and help the people who do abuse the system. Help people kick their bad addictions and show them support and a new way of living rather than calling them low lives (in not so many words) because that's really not going to help at all.

    ETA: not picking on you just kind of ended up using your post to reply

    I just wanted to mention that the word 'slow' is not a very nice word to use. Many of the people on welfare and many homeless people suffer from mental illnesses. Not all people that are homeless or using welfare are mentally ill, obviously, but many are. I know this doesn't really have anything to do with the original post, but as a teacher that works with children with various mental illnesses, it is important to make certain that the general public doesn't use such vocabulary. In the end it may appear to be semantics, but the connotations with the word 'slow' can be damaging.
    Last edited by RebeccaRYoung; Fri, Sep 14th, 2012 at 10:18 AM.
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  12. #132
    Super Saver JennyFromTheRock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TIMMYS View Post
    As I sit reading the posts I am disgusted. I can say for absolute 100% confidence that the majority of people on welfare do not abuse the system. Before you think to argue this point with me, know that I have been a Caseworker in a large Welfare office (now more respectfully called Ontario Works) for almost 20 years. I am shaking as I write this because I am angry on behalf of all my clients. Some are down and out temporarily, some are single parents struggling with a lack of support from the other parent, some suffer from health concerns or mental illness. Ontario Works offices have measures in place to ensure a lack of fraud and participation in productive activities.
    I am so glad that I come to work everyday with a supportive, motivating, giving attitude and not the attitudes stated above. What you see as a welfare bum might just be a person struggling with depression and thinking of ending it all. That cigarette might be their only pleasure. That beer might be alcoholism that they are struggling to recover from. Everyone has their demons, including the poor.
    I can honestly say that I love my job and I am happy that I can counteract the misperceptions that certain people in society have of Ontario Works clients. My client's are human beings! Don't judge until you have had to live in their shoes because you might just be one paycheck away from being in line with them...wouldn't you want to be treated with decency.

    I guess it all depends on the location you live and what you see. I can say that in the province I grew up in, there were far more abusers than there were people who needed it. As I said, entire families, and each new family member getting their own claim with coming of age.

    I also wonder if the reason you see these recipients as being in desperate need of assistance is because of your work?? I mean, if I were on welfare and I was going to see my welfare officer, I'd be on my best behavior as well. Criminals are on their best behavior before a judge...... drivers slow down when they see a police officer...... shop lifters stop when they see a store clerk....... I can't help but wonder if welfare workers are getting a jaded view because of their position. Realistically, the people who abuse the system dont walk into the welfare office saying "Hi, I'm here to pick up my welfare cheque, oh by the way, I'm going to spend it all on beer and blow" They walk in saying they are down on their luck, sick or have hungry kids. Abusers of the system have it all figured out and know exactly what I say to get what they want. I'm sure of all your cases there are at least a few who have fed you a bullpoo sandwich.
    Last edited by JennyFromTheRock; Fri, Sep 14th, 2012 at 10:22 AM.
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  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by DianneS View Post
    Thank you a hundred times over for your post, TIMMYS.

    It was my pleasure and my obligation, not as a Caseworker but as a human being.
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  14. #134
    Senior Canuck Arielmac's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JennyFromTheRock You are so wrong. Its the other way around, the MAJORITY of people are abusing it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkypie View Post
    So friggin true!
    This is an opinion, not a fact.

    Here's what are facts:

    In 2005 5.19% of Canadian population depended on Social security. That is 1 679 800, on that nearly 500 000 were children. Now the majority of this would be over 839 900.

    This is an opinion (mine): I highly doubt you know that many people!

    Fact: Affirming that the majority abuse the system is prejudice, judgmental and stereotypical.

    Opinion (again, mine): Making such assumption on a group of people is as bad as being racist.

    http://www.canadiansocialresearch.ne...actsheet09.pdf

  15. #135
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    I agree with your post.

    I don't find this picture to be very offensive at all. I do not mind helping people that truly need help. My question is how to determine those that need help and those that don't? I'm sure the system has flaws, but I think the question is what to do about those flaws? Is there a system that would actually work?

    There will always be people that take advantage of the system and find all the loopholes that they can. There are also the honest people that don't take advantage, and often these are the people that end up not getting any help/very little help.

    What I find offensive is that this picture serves to highlight the people that are taking advantage, rather than helping those that don't take advantage of a system meant to help. It causes people to think that their tax dollars are being wasted, when there are some people that really do need the help.

    I don't necessarily agree with having to work for the money, if the people are unable to work (physical/mental illnesses). I do, however, agree that they should have to work to obtain the money if they are able to. I do know some people using welfare, or have used it in the past. They used it because the cost of childcare was so high that they could not afford to work. The amount they made at work just barely covered the cost of daycare. There are many places that give free daycare, but sometimes they are full and not able to take more children. When this is the case, it could be difficult for the parent to leave the house to work. I think each person and their situation should be considered individually to determine whether or not they are able to work. If they are, this could be helpful for them in terms of developing a resume in order to apply to other jobs.
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