Explaining A Misconception About Christmas

[MortgageQueen]

Yup. And if only everyone would agree with me about everything the world would be perfect.

Perfectly crazy! . . in the nicest sense of course. . . hee hee!!

[Andit]

Yup. And if only everyone would agree with me about everything the world would be perfect.

I already have 2 roommates who insist I do that.

[Darth Penguin]

But only the last one remained a royal.

while I added Wallis Simpson...I totally forgot Camilla Parker-Bowles who's been a royal for 7 yrs..

[wolfwoman]

Yule is a pagan day that was christianized by the church . Simple as that. Google it. Even your bible has clues that this "person" wasn't born then. As for your bible, I have a question that is serious and not ment to cause trouble. What if your bible is actually a work of fiction that a person or persons just made up? How would that affect you? I would honestly like to know.

[MortgageQueen]

Yule is a pagan day that was christianized by the church . Simple as that. Google it. Even your bible has clues that this "person" wasn't born then. As for your bible, I have a question that is serious and not ment to cause trouble. What if your bible is actually a work of fiction that a person or persons just made up? How would that affect you? I would honestly like to know.

That IS a good question. Every person owes it to themselves to "prove" it to themselves. Problem is, no one much wants to make that effort anymore.
The bible has many aspects to it that prove it is inspired ( except to Dave. haha Just kidding) including prophecy fulfilled, many facts backed by ancient historians, statements/facts that weren't even known back then until centuries later, etc.
The bible has also "vigorously" survived numerous attempts to anhialate its existence. It's also undisputable IMHO that following Jesus guidelines in life can't help but bring happiness to the extent possible in our imperfect world.

That's just off the top of my head? . . .

[Patty Smyth]

I also think this thread was just made to stir up crap.

That being said I have my opnion I am not out to change anyone else's because frankly I don't care. As long as you keep religion out of the government , the schools and my house it's all good.

[Darth Penguin]

If you want to live in a theocracy, there's plenty in the Middle East if you can find one that suits you.

One of the reasons I don't want to move to USA is that far too many people just don't understand why there's a seperation of the church and state. It was to stop the established church from having too much power.

The whole no religous test for public office is under constant attack..see the past two presidential elections when a sizable percentage of Americans thought that Obama is a transformer in disguise...sorry a super-secret Muslim out to destory America . it seems that many people only want a white Christian of the correct variety as president.

Then there's those who think that Sandy Hook shooting happened because that teachers are not allowed to force their students to pray to the correct Christian God. Neglecting the part about not praying on street corners like heathens.
Mind you these do tend to be the same people who think that God cured a child and those pesky doctors had nothing to do with it , that God was far more concerned about helping some-one get a boost to their car-battery rather than stop an earthquake and would rather help Tebow win a football game than assist any of the afore-mentioned cases.

[MortgageQueen]

You may be surprised to find that the bible wholeheartedly agrees with both of you. Christians were to "be no part of the world" or in short. . . its politics.
It also predicts the world political system will turn on religion and destroy it. . . . I don't imagine you'll have a real long time to wait before you see that. There's a very large movement worldwide that supports it.

[Darth Penguin]

yeah...another bugbear of mine. I keep reading how people are preparing for the End of Days but don't really want to suffer for their faith.

They are prepared to be martyrs when they are inconvienced by not being told "Happy Christmas" but want to skip the reign of an anti-Christ which would test them..

[MortgageQueen]

Excellent point DP. We live in a world that for the large part, represents much of what God Detests, such as violence, immorality, lack of love, greed and apathy and of course, false religion.(as in false teachings and/or ridiculus levels of hypocrisy) Perhaps that IS the Test of the anti-Christ? . . .

[Darth Penguin]

it's not so much the lack of religion but the way some of the faithful really twist the wriiten word to support thier own view-point..

The Sandy Hook shooting has religious and psuedo-religious nuts crawling out of the wood-work trying to prove how not following thier world-view is why some-one with legally held guns attacked the innocents that Jesus wanted to reach.

Mike Huckabee

[Darth Penguin]

There's a youtube video I need to look up for another preacher decring the lack of forced faith in American schools which caused this tragedy.

[MortgageQueen]

Well DP, you are quite right again.
It is the reponsibility of a parent to teach a child right from wrong and/or religious beliefs .. . . just another one of God's commandments that has fallen by the wayside.
I would like to point out however. . .despite many a fine effort on parent's part, it doesn't always turn out well. . . and I would never encourage or presume to judge. . .

[Andit]

One of the reasons I don't want to move to USA is that far too many people just don't understand why there's a seperation of the church and state. It was to stop the established church from having too much power.

Actually, it's the other way around. The separation of church and state was to protect religious groups from the state's persecution (as was the case in many European countries). Somewhere in the last half century things got muddled and lines got crossed.

[Andit]

Yule is a pagan day that was christianized by the church . Simple as that. Google it. Even your bible has clues that this "person" wasn't born then. As for your bible, I have a question that is serious and not ment to cause trouble. What if your bible is actually a work of fiction that a person or persons just made up? How would that affect you? I would honestly like to know.

The early Christians had to hide their beliefs or risk persecution by the Romans, so they adjusted their celebrations to coincide with those of the ruling pagans, so as not to be suspect. Later, when the Church became powerful, these pagan rituals were renamed with the Christian terminology that had been used in secret. As the Church evolved, other rituals were added, some for good reasons, some for less than honourable reasons (the Sacrament of Penance, aka Confession, was originally prayer, later through a sort of tithe to the Church, only in the 15th century did it start to resemble the Confession we have today - it served the political ambitions of some very savvy Popes who used it to wield power over heads of state).

And while there is no real way to prove that Jesus is Divine, there is proof that He existed (texts by various Romans, including Pliny the Younger).


As for whether my beliefs would be changed if I were to discover that the Bible was a work of fiction (a la Hubbard's Dianetics, the basis of Scientology), it wouldn't really change things for me. Catholicism, at least to me and the Catholics I know, is more of a guideline of how to live a good life and leave a positive impact on the world (the do unto others as you would have them do unto you philosophy).



And, thank you, everyone, for the interesting discussion.