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Thread: Getting Sued for $1.5 Million Dollars by Marineland

  1. #16
    Smart Canuck MillieH's Avatar
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    Anyone owning a business would , ask people to avoid standing in front of their business trying to prevent them from entering or returning.. if that failed, they would contact the police.. if that failed they would sue.. its the natural progression we all should take if we are being harrassed at home or in our workplace.. That does not make him guilty.

    You say that the police didn't arrest you because they know you are in the right, you have done nothing illegal. They haven't arrested Mr Holer either.

    I agree that we are fortunate to live in Canada.. its one thing to speak up about circus , zoos and places such as Marine land but to slander another person infringes on their rights. From the articles you posted, he has been inspected and when problems are identified he strives to correct them to meet the required standards.

    I understand that his area of business upsets you, and you feel a need to do something. I think it is important to stand up for things we believe in. I don't see however how he could have responded to your actions in a different way. He asked that it be stopped, he contacted the police and now he is suing.. to me that seems logical.. its using the system the way its meant to be used.

    With regards to the trailer park, its unfortunate that the owner of the trailer park sold it to someone who has an ever growing amusement park that brings millions of dollars into Niagara Falls.. its a natural progression that it will eventually be used for that park. Its sad that someone felt hopeless and committed suicide but that was her choice not his fault.

    You see him as a monster, I see him as a person trying to make a living, within the law, providing numerous jobs to the region in the park as well as the spinoff to hotels and such. I have to say if I had the choice of visiting marine land or a slaughterhouse.. I'd pick marine land every time.. Sadly I'm not a vegetarian.. so I guess that says soo very much about me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamerfaith View Post
    @ MillieH

    The people at Green Oaks Trailer park were not squators. They were people who purchased their permanent trailers like you would a house and John Holer lied to everyone when he bought the property claiming he wasn't planning to change anything - he even let a family buy a new trailer there. Later on he announces he has the permits to go ahead and use the property for his maintenance buildings (another lie, never had them) and so he serves eviction notices to the residents. They fought against him to keep their homes and the city refused to use the laws available to help them. He would ride through the park at all hours of the day, harassing them and pushing them to leave. Some of the people there were retired seniors, people with disabilities, and one woman was sick with cancer. In the end, a woman took her own life because she had nowhere to go but her home at that park. There are people from that park who are still paying money on the homes they no longer have. But that's just business, right? Who cares if business throws people out on the street?

    That eviction happened in 2010. That lot where Green Oaks was, it was still full of the trailers up until only a couple of months ago, when the city ordered Mr. Holer to clean it up. It is still vacant. He owns hundreds of unused acres at Marineland and somehow he needed these 6 extra acres so desperately that is just sits empty!

    As for the proof that John Holer and Marineland are guilty of animal captivity, cruelty and more, you can easily read about the truth from the Toronto Star - www.thestar.com/marineland. Problem is though we live in a country where the law does not protect zoo or marine animals. You can charge a man for shooting his dog, but not for shooting his deer and leaving it to slowly die a horrible, painful death. You cannot charge a man for housing bears in a tiny pen with filthy water and feeding them an inappropriate diet of pop corns. You cannot charge a man for blinding his seal lions, or allowing his whales to die alone in tiny tank in a warehouse.

    I believe in standing up for what is wrong in the world. The police haven't arrest any of us for protesting because they know we are in the right here. We do nothing illegal and if Mr. Holer wasn't doing anything wrong he wouldn't do everything in his power to stop the truth from getting out. The lawsuit is just a scare tactic - he is using it to silence the Toronto Star from their investigations, 3 ex-employees from reporting the truth and 2 activists from providing the truth to visitors. These are not the actions of an innocent man.

    Maybe next time you should try reading those handouts before you toss them. People should have both sides of the situation before making up their minds. I use to go to Marineland too but something always seemed wrong about that place so I stopped. My thoughts were confirmed when I read the Toronto Star investigations, and when I heard one of the former trainers talk about his time at the park. Talk about how they abused the animal he trained, a walrus named Smooshie - it was like hearing a person talk about their pet being abused before their eyes and they were powerless to stop it.

    Nothing is happy about Marineland and I am glad I live in a country where I can at least freely speak out against monsters like John Holer. The laws are not there for those animals, so we have to be until the laws are changed.
    Last edited by MillieH; Sun, Jul 14th, 2013 at 01:21 PM.
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  2. #17
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    These people took on McDonalds(UK) acting as their own lawyers..

    It can be done to successfully defend yourself against a large company and win.
    emg likes this.


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    I read the articles in Toronto Star too about Marineland .

    If its true , its disgusting & horrible.

    Have never been there & don't plan to go there , if all these stories are true

    Some of the Toronto Star stories regarding Marineland below ..again I have never been there , so don't know if they are true or not.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/investig...arineland.html

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lecale View Post
    I thought the Toronto Star investigation resulted in the OSPCA coming and CAZA to inspect Marineland, and everything was cleared up. At least that's what I'm reading from the link you provided:

    "Marineland has complied with all orders as directed by the Ontario Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, leading the society to announce its eight-month investigation is over."

    "CAZA director Bill Peters told the Star the engineering firm is conducting a “rigorous” examination of both the physical water handling system and the water testing procedures to “make sure their system is reliable.”
    Whether the allegations at Marineland are true or not, there are a few issues with the OSPCA investigation. One is that Marineland had plenty of (public) warning of the OSPCA visit, which would have given them enough time to deal with certain accusations such as dirty water and improper filtration systems etc.. The second is that the OSPCA is a legislatively toothless organization. One of the major allegations in the Star and by former employees is the way that they treat the animals. Under the legislation, if an animal is under the care of a vet, it is exempt from OSPCA investigation. So all Marineland or a zoo or anyone else need is a vet to say it is under their care. If the allegations are true, this is likely why their report did not include an investigation of these allegations.
    Last edited by trishka; Mon, Jul 15th, 2013 at 10:07 AM. Reason: grammar

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    Quote Originally Posted by trishka View Post
    Whether the allegations at Marineland are true or not, there are a few issues with the OSPCA investigation. One is that Marineland had plenty of (public) warning of the OSPCA visit, which would have given them enough time to deal with certain accusations such as dirty water and improper filtration systems etc.. The second is that the OSPCA is a legislatively toothless organization. One of the major allegations in the Star and by former employees is the way that they treat the animals. Under the legislation, if an animal is under the care of a vet, it is exempt from OSPCA investigation. So all Marineland or a zoo or anyone else need is a vet to say it is under their care. If the allegations are true, this is likely why their report did not include an investigation of these allegations.
    Some of the Toronto Star photos are disturbing .

    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...d_animals.html

  6. #21
    St.KittsGal
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    I realize everyone is going have their own opinion based on what facts they know. This country though gives us the right to stand on public property and protest a business if we so choose, and person shouldn't have to give up that right to peaceful assembly and freedom of speech. Women and minorities have freedoms today because people protested and stood their ground. Laws are only changed when people make the effort to change them.

  7. #22
    searching for answers i_forget's Avatar
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    I know a person who use to live near Marineland. He told me some horror stories about that place....worst being that when the deer got sick that they would "set them free" at night instead of having them checked by a vet.

    I will never bring my children there.
    Love like crazy everyday and smile.

  8. #23
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    Gamerfaith likes this.


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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamerfaith View Post
    I realize everyone is going have their own opinion based on what facts they know. This country though gives us the right to stand on public property and protest a business if we so choose, and person shouldn't have to give up that right to peaceful assembly and freedom of speech. Women and minorities have freedoms today because people protested and stood their ground. Laws are only changed when people make the effort to change them.
    Yup , as long as you are on public property ..you have every right to do so

    But I guess the business will always try to prevent that , with some defamation suit or something like that.

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    Honestly , I admire his courage and guts .

    Not sure if I would have been able to do the same

    If he is right , may God bless him ..and the various social groups will come to his aid.

    Maybe there are some pro bono lawyers , who will come to. His aid
    tobiwobi likes this.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_forget View Post
    I know a person who use to live near Marineland. He told me some horror stories about that place....worst being that when the deer got sick that they would "set them free" at night instead of having them checked by a vet.

    I will never bring my children there.
    If you read the Toronto Star articles, one of the former employees told a worst story than the deer just being set free. Mr. Holer, the owner would come out in his truck and shoot the deer who needed vet care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamerfaith View Post
    If you read the Toronto Star articles, one of the former employees told a worst story than the deer just being set free. Mr. Holer, the owner would come out in his truck and shoot the deer who needed vet care.
    If true , then Hopefully the same thing doesn't happen to him , when he needs care .
    Gamerfaith likes this.

  13. #28
    Smart Canuck tobiwobi's Avatar
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    First off I will say that I support banning keeping orcas in captivity. Very high profile documentary called Blackfish (native american for orca) is coming out and seaworld in US is threatening all kind of action. I will make sure that I see it. My understanding is that some marine animals are well suited e.g. sea lions basically being like marine dogs and doing ok, while orcas are on the other end of the spectrum suffering psychological and physical trauma because they are creatures that live in pods with complex social behaviors, and travel hundreds of thousands kilometers in their natural habitat vs conditions they are held in.

    I think just the fact that a place like Marineland does not employ full time veterinarians means that they don't want to invest in their animals' well being properly and saving money is more of a priority. Why not just hire a full time vet, so you have one available and don't have to think gee is this injury worth me calling a vet in and they're gonna charge me etc. Not having a vet on staff at a place like that says it all.

    I was at Marineland once and the one thing I remember is they had so many belugas and they all looked the same to me but the trainers and keepers could tell which is which and called them by name if there is just a little tail or fin or nose sticking out of water. I hope the owner is not too cheap to keep and pay his amazing and dedicated staff.

  14. #29
    Smart Canuck tobiwobi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamerfaith View Post
    If you read the Toronto Star articles, one of the former employees told a worst story than the deer just being set free. Mr. Holer, the owner would come out in his truck and shoot the deer who needed vet care.
    I can totally see that man thinking 'I own it so I have the right to kill it'. And try to save money and cut staff like a big box store except his merchandise is living and breathing and needs care.

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    Canadian Genius xox2010's Avatar
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    You know, I always wanted to go to marineland, but after hearing so many horror stories, I will never go. I hate even going to zoos because you can tell that the animals are agitated and aren't meant to be caged up.

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