Police brutality? Toronto police gun happy? Disgusting

[CanadianCouponCollector]

... tossing in my 2 cents.. I worked at a 24 hour gas station- midnight shift. Wore a "help" button around my neck. Was instructed to push the button if in an emergency. An emergency happened, and apparently I pushed that help button 27 times. I would pass a lie detector test saying I only pushed it three times. Also, when asked how much time passed between the guy coming into my store and the police arriving, I said "15 minutes". It was really only about 5. Granted, a help button is not the same as a gun. And I only had very limited training in how to handle a robbery- therefore less prepared than an officer would be, however I thought I knew exactly what I would do in a situation like that- remain calm, do what I was asked and let them do what they want with the store. Instead, I wet my pants and hid in a freezer. I am not saying the officer should not be charged for what happened, I'm saying if he has never before been in such a situation (possible that he was sent in to deal with the kid because he was still fairly new to this kind of situation?) no one would really know how he was going to react. No amount of training prepares you for the real thing. It took me 10 years to go back into that store, and 12 to go near the exact spot where everything happened. Guaranteed he never wants to be an officer again, regardless of the results in court.

[vesper]

be trained on how to deescalate a situation....

They are. They do. BUt as you keep reminding everyone, the man had mental problems. How do you reason with an aggressive creepy knife wielding man intent on trouble? You can't! Have you not ever dealt with mentally ill people? Even a PHD in psychology isn't going to help you. If you change the rules to 'Retreat' in these situation, you are putting lives in danger.

Norwegian police have those rules, and had to stand idle for half an hour while a mentally ill aggressive man shot and killed dozens of children.

When those Islamic extremists beheaded a soldier in England, it took forever for the police to get there, they have very strict guidelines to follow in hostile situations.

Don't hijack a bus at knife point and invite a confrontation with law enforcement. Do not do that.

[dariusz8]

How long did it take from the time they got on the scene to the time they killed him? a whole minute? 2? not much time to deescalate anything

[vesper]

How long did it take from the time they got on the scene to the time they killed him? a whole minute? 2? not much time to deescalate anything

This situation does not call for more than basic de-escalation. It calls for containment or force. But again, since no one know who was on the bus, if he had a bomb, gun etc, why risk your own life? Force of some sort was going to be the result, no matter what. Me... I'd prefer the club, but I'm sure that would make sensitive people angry.

[FallenPixels]

While I firmly agree that there probably were other ways to de-escalate the situation before using a gun, since they obviously had tasers, perhaps they could have used them before a gun. That being said, I have seen instances of people with knives still doing damage with them as they were tasered and of course there are deaths by taser.

I also think that when a cop tells you to put down a weapon and you do not, they are going to use force to make you put down that weapon. Mentally ill or not, Toronto cops deal with it every day, and sometimes you just can't reason with a mentally ill person - even less so, one cornered in a bus with a weapon.

[dariusz8]

Unfortunately, I don't think we'd be looking at second degree murder charges if this is what was regular protocol was and proper use of force just saying.... the club would be nice(nice emoticon) and I think I would prefere it too, the problem I think was some liked using it a little tooooo much. lol its fun

[rufus88]

Sorry you had this experience it is understandable that you were flustered during this stressful event.
The officer concerned is on leave with full pay. There isn't any doubt in my mind that he will get away with it. And be a cop again, he has so much support and justification, why would he doubt his perfect response?
I was born in Toronto and am disgusted with the police, I'm not a minority, have never been arrested and do not attend demonstrations. But I did attend the Sammy one. We are not safe with our police, they are out of control and armed to the teeth.
See them goosestepping down University Ave again for clear statement about where their loyalties lie - "mess with one you mess with all".
No accountability.

[vesper]

Rufus, generally police carry only a service revolver, they are not armed to the teeth. No sniper rifle, shotgun or anything like that.

No accountability? Can I give you a chance to reconsider that?

The good news for you Rufus, is that starting about NOW for the next 10 years, you will see a transition from police officers handling day to day law enforcement, to drones and cameras. Because of folks like you, the media, politicians and other privileged folks who think the way you do, in the name of public safety and security this is what you will be getting:

1) Drones with facial recognition, so that when you jay walk, no officer will have to interact with you. The information the drone collects will result in a ticket being sent you automatically.

2) If ever a person needs to removed, drones will do it! rather than riot police or armed first responders, drones will spray you, taser you all the while emitting light to render any other video useless

3) Cameras and drones that can pick up conversations far away, so we do not need to rely on police statements, the drones already know what was said.

4) A scream? Don't worry, drones hear it! They will go the house, peak in the window.... opps! It's just a naked lady who has a boyfriend with a thick tool and funny hands. Oh well, security first!

5) You'll never have to worry about being falsely accused because drones cameras know everwhere you been, who was with you, and can even tap into financial data to see what you spent.

You see Rufus, the future belongs to YOU, not police! Toronto will be safe and sound!

[dariusz8]

Not sure why all the fear of drones? they are taking over not only policing.... most other job positions have already been taken over by some form of robotics. It actually may be a good thing the way you describe drones..... The instance a child is kidnapped drones will have already known, someone who conceals a gun in there pants a drone will have been able to scan it and quickly disarm a potentially bad situation. Am I terrified? nope. I would prefer a drone, recorded video, audio etc rather then a police officer who says I said or did something I didn't.

[vesper]

Not sure why all the fear of drones? they are taking over not only policing.... most other job positions have already been taken over by some form of robotics. It actually may be a good thing the way you describe drones..... The instance a child is kidnapped drones will have already known, someone who conceals a gun in there pants a drone will have been able to scan it and quickly disarm a potentially bad situation. Am I terrified? nope. I would prefer a drone, recorded video, audio etc rather then a police officer who says I said or did something I didn't.

well that explains why we see things very different. Me, I am very libertarian and believe in personal responsibility. I sensed you feel law enforcement should behave in a way more consistent of a care giver rather then public safety, so I can see why you feel more comfortable with drones and cameras and replacing privacy and freedom with safety and security.

About 18% of the population feels the way you do. But most don't want a police/nanny state. We'd rather live with the human experience, good and the bad. You big city folks, I suspect will be fully integrated into the grid in about 10 years, I hope it is enjoyable, because you won't be able to escape from it once you are in.... unless you move to place that rejects this stuff.

[dariusz8]

Who said anything about a caregiver ? i just disagree with how "Some" law enforcement officers operate as they should never have been given a badge and gun as they clearly don't know how to control the power entrusted in them. Another great reason for drones would be they would not suffer shock like you claim this officer did. See I am all for public safety.... hate when people try to put words in my mouth ahhh. I just realized the way you dream of this future of drones may actually be super.... public safety would be very high... how many times is a cop available immediately when you need one? how many times do you drive wishing a cop was around to catch that crazy person behind you with road rage... the way you put it drones would have already been there to rescue the day and put public safety first. Even you posted earlier that your hoping for the surveillance to see if the officer went into shock.... So i don't get how cameras are a bad thing watching us as they already are, if you did nothing wrong they exonerate you. Do i notice these camera's already around? nope, as i live a normal life without any reason for those cameras to impede in my life.

[VeeVee]

Nope. Normally just one shot outta do the trick. I wonder how many times he missed? 9 out of 10 times, I can hit a target the equivalent of a block away. I think he went into shock. Ever watch someone die in an accident before? You know that feeling? x5 when you are the reason that person died.

8 out of the 9 shots fired STRUCK Sammy!
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/08/22...m-hit-the-teen

[dariusz8]

"The Toronto Sun has also learned that Forcillo was eager to get back to work after the Yatim shooting and was surprised when Chief Bill Blair suspended him", “After the shooting he was asked if he needed to go to the hospital or see a doctor and he said all he wanted to do was go back to work,”

[dariusz8]

Toronto officer who tasered Sammy Yatim under investigation http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle13941570/

[MillieH]

I saw a beautiful story on how a bookkeeper talked an armed man into laying his gun down.. certainly not relevant to this topic at all and not comparable... it just shows that we all have something that surfaces under crisis..

I don't think I can post the link so here is the title if you want to google it...... Georgia elementary school bookkeeper credited with calming armed suspect