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Thread: The Shoebox Package train- Over - expired

  1. #1171
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumpkin9211 View Post
    So, I'm curious... Could the ratings have been positive with the mailing late info and reason why attached?

    Example: **positive rating** Great Package Sent- Post requirement made- Did mail late to due (enter reason here)

    That way, if the same people were suffering from the same emergencies/deaths/situation over and over again we would all know/"catch on".

    Just thinking out loud.
    this is a great idea also if there was a tab in the feedback area specifically for package trains that could be easy to weed them out
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    It is not possible to add a tab for package trains at this time
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    Quote Originally Posted by FallenPixels View Post
    It is not possible to add a tab for package trains at this time
    when and if it ever is another great thing would be if you can search for fb from/for a certain rider like sometimes i wonder if i traded with someone before and have to go through many pages before giving up (also in the case of late missing feedback)it would be so much easier, like how we are able to search our messages
    Last edited by Anna Michele; Tue, Sep 3rd, 2013 at 06:38 PM.
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    That would be amazing, but the software is no longer supported/updated and switching means we may lose all the feedback so we are kinda just stuck with what we got. FE has been looking into updating or switching but it is not a priority while there is other stuff that needs work
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumpkin9211 View Post
    So, I'm curious... Could the ratings have been positive with the mailing late info and reason why attached?

    Example: **positive rating** Great Package Sent- Post requirement made- Did mail late to due (enter reason here)

    That way, if the same people were suffering from the same emergencies/deaths/situation over and over again we would all know/"catch on".

    Just thinking out loud.
    Me again... at first I thought I was being ignored... but then I thought "nah!"- I was just thinking out loud.

    So, my assumption is that idea didn't fly and that's cool..... Unfortunate about not having the ability about adding more tabs... maybe one day.

    I guess I should ask this question.. would you prefer the chatter carry on here or would you like it to move to the pkg train thread? (not the new trains- the sticky)

    I did receive a kind message that requested I continue on in a pm to Fallen- but I don't wish to go that route. I don't want to be anonymous- but if you would prefer a different thread- I would be happy to follow those directions.

    And, I don't think I'm at risk for being banned(another suggestion)... I hope not- I have a horrible addiction to coupons

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    Quote Originally Posted by pumpkin9211 View Post
    So, I'm curious... Could the ratings have been positive with the mailing late info and reason why attached?

    Example: **positive rating** Great Package Sent- Post requirement made- Did mail late to due (enter reason here)

    That way, if the same people were suffering from the same emergencies/deaths/situation over and over again we would all know/"catch on".

    Just thinking out loud.
    If it were done this way, the feedback, with the issue, would be quickly buried, especially for active traders. With a neutral, even if it far down, you see it in the count on the right hand side of the page.

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    I don't have a big trading score here, but I dounderstand the feeling of pride people take in their trade scores and theanxiety and the thought of it not being 100% positive (I have been a seller onEtsy and other handmade marketplaces, so have had a lot invested in feedbackscores, just in another place).

    Reading all that has gone on here has left me torn. I totally respect andadmire that Cherie had the courage to leave the neutral. Leaving aneutral or a negative feedback in any community where you are invested is ahard thing to do. Because inevitably some people end up upset. AndI suspect that it is because Cherie is so invested in this community that shedid it. She wants to be open and honest and transparent and respectful ofthe process so that the system works for everyone now and in the future. Because trading requires trust in others (just as buying from small independentartists over big name companies takes trust. So does selling to peopleand hoping that they don't leave you nasty feedback that leaves your reputationin tatters, believe me). And to have trust, you need to feel that thesystem is trustworthy, that people are honest where it is needed. Cherie,if I have made erroneous assumptions about some of your thought process orreasons, I apologize and please feel free to correct them.

    Part of why I am torn is that ironically, in mid-June, I lived an eerilysimilar situation to Bluz's, but it was a regular VWT, not a packagetrain. I was on one of CLB's VWT when I realized that something was wrongwith my cat. I called the vet on the Wednesday and made an appointmentfor the next day. I think CLB probably set the mail date for the train onthat same day. By the Thursday I realized he was really not well, we wentto vet, he had blood tests done and I had a horrible nightworried about my Oreo. And a migraine, brought on by the stress. Onthe Friday morning, I was home when the vet called, because I stillhad the migraine. The blood test results were very bad and I had tobring Oreo to an emergency vet clinic across town. I left him there at 11am on the Friday morning for more tests and at 5:15pm got the results and hadto make the decision to have him put down. When I got to the clinic tosee him and say good-bye, he was struggling to breathe so much and suffering somuch that I called the vet back in after about a minute. I don't think Oreoeven recognized me. I couldn't bear to watch him suffer like that. He had been with me for 14 years, and was a loving, beautiful, wonderfulcat. As you can imagine, I was absolutely devastated. And I hadlost my female cat, Shadow, to chronic kidney disease just two monthsearlier. I had had them both for 14 years, and suddenly both my babieswere gone.

    That was the Friday. The Saturday was the mail date for CLBs train. I didn't mail on Saturday. There was just no way I could sort throughcoupons and do that, I was just a huge, crying mess. I don't remember ifI let her know that I would be mailing late directly in the thread or if it wasin a PM. I had hoped to mail on Monday morning, but wasn't able to do sountil the Tuesday evening. I don't even know how I got it together,but I somehow I did. My envie made it to CLB quickly, so got therebefore some of the others. I received a positive for that train,even though I broke a rule, probably because my mailing late ended up noteven being noticeable. Or maybe because she felt bad for me because I hadjust lost my cat.

    I was actually also riding the Book Exchange package train at that time, butmail date was about 2 weeks later, so didn't impact that train. Although I didn't do any shopping for my buddy for about a week, cause I wascrying so darn much over my cat. And I mentioned losing Oreo in thatthread and others, cause I was just so devastated. Heck, three vets wereheartbroken for me (the two at my usual clinic, including the one who treatedmy Shadow with her kidney issues, and was the one who had to call me withOreo's blood test results, and the vet at the emergency clinic).

    So you can understand that I have a pretty clear idea of what Bluz has gonethrough recently. And my heart went out to her so much with losingWillow.

    The reason I am torn is because in what was pretty much the same situation,there were different outcomes with feedback. I realize now that Iprobably should have been given a neutral for that VWT. Honestly, if Ihad, it probably would have made me cry. Partly because I was crying alot at that time, partly because I don't have a big trading score, I don't knowpeople here, and I would have been worried that it would have affected myability to trade. And I now realize it might have stopped me from ridingfuture package trains. That book exchange train that I was riding at timeOreo died was my first package train. And it was wonderful. It wasso much fun. And it gave me the opportunity to get to know some other SCmembers more, and they were wonderfully supportive when I lost Oreo. ButI did break a rule on the VWT. And I could just be the type of personthat makes up excuses that sound good (okay, in that case, I cried about it intoo many places for it to have been made up, but how was CLB supposed to knowthat? She doesn't know me from Adam). And I am confident that noneof the three ladies on this train made up anything. They were livinghorrible things.

    For the feedback system to work, we all need to respect it. And we needto leave appropriate feedback, even when that is hard. We can't be afraidof it, or of the reactions to the feedback we leave, or it doesn't work. We can't abuse it (and we have a mod to help prevent that, if someone is justretaliatory or if an honest mistake is made), but we have to use it as it wasintended.

    As I stated earlier, I have a lot of experience with feedback systemselsewhere, if less here. And I've seen things go awry with them if peopleare afraid of leaving honest feedback.

    So I am torn, I am sympathetic, and I understand and respect why things weredone the way they were.

    And a part of me, the part that rides trains, wishes more conductors and riderswere more honest in their feedback. If riders make errors on VWT, doconductors give them neutral or negative ratings? If not, do those sameriders keep riding more trains and making errors? How do potentialconductors know there might be problems? Same with traditionaltrains. If a train disappears, or the wrong types ofcoupons left in train (like non food on food only trains, early expiries, etc.)does the feedback reflect that? I know that on trad trains, hard to knowwho actually broke the rules. Most of us don't want to leave anythingother than positive feedback because we don't want to hurt anyone'sfeelings. Or because we are afraid of the reactions. Or otherreasons. Maybe that needs to be re-examined so that the feedbacksystem is more reflective of what is actually going on. And if it weremore reflective, maybe when a great trader gets a neutral for some reason,that trader won't feel so like she just got a kick in the teeth.

    Anyway, sorry that I rambled for so long. I just wanted to sharemy thoughts. I have been thinking about this since I read stuffon Saturday, and hesitated to share.
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  8. #1178
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    Quote Originally Posted by super807 View Post


    Part of why I am torn is that ironically, in mid-June, I lived an eerilysimilar situation to Bluz's, but it was a regular VWT, not a packagetrain. I was on one of CLB's VWT when I realized that something was wrongwith my cat. I called the vet on the Wednesday and made an appointmentfor the next day. I think CLB probably set the mail date for the train onthat same day. By the Thursday I realized he was really not well, we wentto vet, he had blood tests done and I had a horrible nightworried about my Oreo. And a migraine, brought on by the stress. Onthe Friday morning, I was home when the vet called, because I stillhad the migraine. The blood test results were very bad and I had tobring Oreo to an emergency vet clinic across town. I left him there at 11am on the Friday morning for more tests and at 5:15pm got the results and hadto make the decision to have him put down. When I got to the clinic tosee him and say good-bye, he was struggling to breathe so much and suffering somuch that I called the vet back in after about a minute. I don't think Oreoeven recognized me. I couldn't bear to watch him suffer like that. He had been with me for 14 years, and was a loving, beautiful, wonderfulcat. As you can imagine, I was absolutely devastated. And I hadlost my female cat, Shadow, to chronic kidney disease just two monthsearlier. I had had them both for 14 years, and suddenly both my babieswere gone.

    That was the Friday. The Saturday was the mail date for CLBs train. I didn't mail on Saturday. There was just no way I could sort throughcoupons and do that, I was just a huge, crying mess. I don't remember ifI let her know that I would be mailing late directly in the thread or if it wasin a PM. I had hoped to mail on Monday morning, but wasn't able to do sountil the Tuesday evening. I don't even know how I got it together,but I somehow I did. My envie made it to CLB quickly, so got therebefore some of the others. I received a positive for that train,even though I broke a rule, probably because my mailing late ended up noteven being noticeable. Or maybe because she felt bad for me because I hadjust lost my cat.

    The reason I am torn is because in what was pretty much the same situation,there were different outcomes with feedback. I realize now that Iprobably should have been given a neutral for that VWT. Honestly, if Ihad, it probably would have made me cry. Partly because I was crying alot at that time, partly because I don't have a big trading score, I don't knowpeople here, and I would have been worried that it would have affected myability to trade. And I now realize it might have stopped me from ridingfuture package trains.

    I did know what was going on with you -and I didn't feel that you deserved a neutral as you were open, honest and communicated what was going on in your life and why you needed to mail late.

    I didn't feel that a tragedy in your life should stop you/make it more difficult for you to do future trades/trains.

    I think VWT ratings tend to be a little more relaxed than package trains....because there is less at stake

    again, really not jumping into this debate.....I really don't want hate mail....just thought I should pop in as my name was mentioned in this case
    Last edited by CouponLadybird; Tue, Sep 3rd, 2013 at 10:13 PM.
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  9. #1179
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    pumpkin, I didn't answer because at this point is is just beating a dead horse.
    As others have said, a positive gets easily buried, a neutral shows for one year, I changed the message to say they had a good reason for mailing late because I wanted ppl to know they did not just mail late just because.

    I am sick of people telling me I am doing a disservice by allowing people to fix trades that go wrong (you know actually getting them something rather than just leaving a rating) bc then others have the same issue and someone PMs them saying oh yeah she is always slow/wrong coupons/greedy/whatever. But I am not going to be bullied into changing ratings. Then I follow through on the rules (and it wasn't just trades, ppl asked for this when we discussed new coupon rules and when we loosened the rules it was decided that we had to be stricter about them since the rules were lighter now) and people have an issue.

    Also, not one of these members contacted me directly to dispute the rating, instead I have people who have decided that I forced cherie into this and making snarky comments about me in other threads and accusing me of banning people.
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  10. #1180
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    Quote Originally Posted by CouponLadybird View Post
    I did know what was going on with you -and I didn't feel that you deserved a neutral as you were open, honest and communicated what was going on in your life and why you needed to mail late.

    I didn't feel that a tragedy in your life should stop you/make it more difficult for you to do future trades/trains

    Really it all comes down to the grey area.....some people like to see things/find it easier to have things in black & white......I prefer to see that there are many shades, and life happens to all of us sometimes....

    again, really not jumping into this debate.....I really don't want hate mail....just thought I should pop in with my 2cents as my name was mentioned in this case
    Yes, sorry to bring your name in, I just wanted to be open in sharing my experience, and I saw that you were aware of the thread. I appreciate you sharing your thinking, and honestly, I really do appreciate that you gave me a positive. I was a mess at the time. And I don't think you did anything wrong by taking the circumstances into consideration and leaving a positive. If it seemed that I implied otherwise, my apologies. I'm sorry CLB, I shouldn't have identified you. It was more that I hadn't even considered that it could even be a possibility until the situation with this train.

    And I don't think that Cherie did anything wrong either.

    This isn't black and white, and I don't know what the answers are.

    It's a hard situation, because I really do see both sides.

    I think that the fact that this situation has elicited so much comment means a couple of things:
    1. SC members are really passionate about this community
    2. there may be some challenges with the feedback system as it today, and that it is hard to see what to do to help make it better, or more reliable, or something.

  11. #1181
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    Quote Originally Posted by super807 View Post
    Yes, sorry to bring your name in, I just wanted to be open in sharing my experience, and I saw that you were aware of the thread. I appreciate you sharing your thinking, and honestly, I really do appreciate that you gave me a positive. I was a mess at the time. And I don't think you did anything wrong by taking the circumstances into consideration and leaving a positive. If it seemed that I implied otherwise, my apologies. I'm sorry CLB, I shouldn't have identified you. It was more that I hadn't even considered that it could even be a possibility until the situation with this train.

    And I don't think that Cherie did anything wrong either.

    This isn't black and white, and I don't know what the answers are.

    It's a hard situation, because I really do see both sides.

    I think that the fact that this situation has elicited so much comment means a couple of things:
    1. SC members are really passionate about this community
    2. there may be some challenges with the feedback system as it today, and that it is hard to see what to do to help make it better, or more reliable, or something.

    oh no worries, I don't mind being brought into it in this circumstance I just thought I should jump in and share.

    As I said in the original quote (edited my post a bit.....) it is all a grey area (or lack thereof depending on your point of view).....and that of course is a big part of the debate

    and yes SC is full of wonderfully passionate people who love this online community....and that is part of what makes it work.....and makes it so frustrating at times......
    Last edited by CouponLadybird; Tue, Sep 3rd, 2013 at 10:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CouponLadybird View Post
    I think VWT ratings tend to be a little more relaxed than package trains....because there is less at stake
    True - if I hadn't mailed on that VWT, people would not have been out coupons as they would have had what they sent for me mailed back to them.

    On a package train, more $$ are invested, and the person who doesn't mail or something, still gets a package, which is totally not nice.

    Which was not the case in this package train, as everyone mailed.

    But I understand that on other package trains in the past, it has happened that someone did not mail.

    And with the train here, I was really, truly, really fine with the fact that Bluz mailed late. Cause I really, really, really understood.
    Last edited by super807; Tue, Sep 3rd, 2013 at 10:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by super807 View Post
    If it were done this way, the feedback, with the issue, would be quickly buried, especially for active traders. With a neutral, even if it far down, you see it in the count on the right hand side of the page.
    That's why I mentioned it would be more work for the conductors- but I can see why not everyone wants to go through pages of feedback scores.

    Quote Originally Posted by CouponLadybird View Post
    I did know what was going on with you -and I didn't feel that you deserved a neutral as you were open, honest and communicated what was going on in your life and why you needed to mail late.

    I didn't feel that a tragedy in your life should stop you/make it more difficult for you to do future trades/trains.

    I think VWT ratings tend to be a little more relaxed than package trains....because there is less at stake

    again, really not jumping into this debate.....I really don't want hate mail....just thought I should pop in as my name was mentioned in this case
    I love that you were able to put into words what I was having a hard time saying. This rating has ruined part of - if not all of the package trains for some. (and no, CLB has not said she agree with me - just using her quote - no hate mail to CLB)

    Quote Originally Posted by FallenPixels View Post
    pumpkin, I didn't answer because at this point is is just beating a dead horse.
    As others have said, a positive gets easily buried, a neutral shows for one year, I changed the message to say they had a good reason for mailing late because I wanted ppl to know they did not just mail late just because.

    I am sick of people telling me I am doing a disservice by allowing people to fix trades that go wrong (you know actually getting them something rather than just leaving a rating) bc then others have the same issue and someone PMs them saying oh yeah she is always slow/wrong coupons/greedy/whatever. But I am not going to be bullied into changing ratings. Then I follow through on the rules (and it wasn't just trades, ppl asked for this when we discussed new coupon rules and when we loosened the rules it was decided that we had to be stricter about them since the rules were lighter now) and people have an issue.

    Also, not one of these members contacted me directly to dispute the rating, instead I have people who have decided that I forced cherie into this and making snarky comments about me in other threads and accusing me of banning people.
    Maybe they will contact you now...

    I don't have any comments about the trading problems. I don't think I have had to have a mod included in any of my trades or VWT(and I hope to have continued success that way) - So, I really don't have an opinion on that.

    I hope you don't feel bullied by me. That was not my intention. I am asking to have more discussion regarding these darn pkg trains. Everyone is not happy. Somethings still need to see major improvement. But if you feel like its beating a dead horse.... well, then... I don't know where to go from here. Its disappointing to me.. as a pkg train rider, an SC'er and just a level headed kind of person.

    If you're referring to my snarky remarks - you should be friends with me on Facebook. I post snarky remarks all the time. Usually not directed towards anyone. Sometimes they are - I'm human. I'm sure you've made a few snarky remarks in your lifetime too. This is getting of topic.

    Back on track -

    You've lost some fantastic package train riders and conductors. Maybe some will come back- maybe not. I can't speak for them. I can only speak for myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by super807 View Post
    Yes, sorry to bring your name in, I just wanted to be open in sharing my experience, and I saw that you were aware of the thread. I appreciate you sharing your thinking, and honestly, I really do appreciate that you gave me a positive. I was a mess at the time. And I don't think you did anything wrong by taking the circumstances into consideration and leaving a positive. If it seemed that I implied otherwise, my apologies. I'm sorry CLB, I shouldn't have identified you. It was more that I hadn't even considered that it could even be a possibility until the situation with this train.

    And I don't think that Cherie did anything wrong either.

    This isn't black and white, and I don't know what the answers are.

    It's a hard situation, because I really do see both sides.

    I think that the fact that this situation has elicited so much comment means a couple of things:
    1. SC members are really passionate about this community
    2. there may be some challenges with the feedback system as it today, and that it is hard to see what to do to help make it better, or more reliable, or something.
    Agree with both of those points.

    Quote Originally Posted by super807 View Post
    True - if I hadn't mailed on that VWT, people would not have been out coupons as they would have had what they sent for me mailed back to them.

    On a package train, more $$ are invested, and the person who doesn't mail or something, still gets a package, which is totally not nice.

    Which was not the case in this package train, as everyone mailed.

    But I understand that on other package trains in the past, it has happened that someone did not mail.

    And with the train here, I was really, truly, really fine with the fact that Bluz mailed late. Cause I really, really, really understood.
    I tried to rep you but I have to spread it around first - I'm very sorry for the loss of your fur baby! Thanks for sharing your point of view

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    No, not your snarky comments, you kept them to this thread and outright said them

    Quote Originally Posted by redhdlois View Post
    Sure wish someone had left something other than positive feedback based on this!! Now I'm having the same problem.....
    The ratings she mentioned happened occurred just before I became trade mod, some never left ratings, some left positive with no comment that they were sent late - now people are out coupons again. There are plenty of people who want these neutrals left. As many others have commented, they have neutrals and no issues with trading.

    I am sick of taking the blame when trades go wrong later and we could have stopped it by leaving a neutral to let ppl know there was an issue in the past.

    Sure, it is disappointing that people no longer want to ride trains, but as conductors, you know the cost of make up packages being sent or the heartache of someone not having a package. I have said many times that I do not think these three traders would ever do it again, but I would have said the same about other traders who I now have complaints about. The fact is with good traders, ppl feel scared about leaving them bad ratings, I currently have PMs about three users who anyone would think is a great trader with no issues, but the PMs tell me about a history of issues that I can't find in their ratings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FallenPixels View Post
    No, not your snarky comments, you kept them to this thread and outright said them

    I didn't think I was a being snarky. But I do agree I have stated my opinion and tried very hard not to attack you on a personal level. Like I have said before, I disagree with these ratings, some of the new rules and the direction these pkg trains are going.

    The ratings she mentioned happened occurred just before I became trade mod, some never left ratings, some left positive with no comment that they were sent late - now people are out coupons again. There are plenty of people who want these neutrals left. As many others have commented, they have neutrals and no issues with trading.

    I'm confused.. is this in regards to pkg trade ratings?

    I am sick of taking the blame when trades go wrong later and we could have stopped it by leaving a neutral to let ppl know there was an issue in the past.

    I can appreciate that you hate being blamed -- but with that said, if a trader mailed a few days later due to death, critical illness or helping to save a friend I would still feel that the neutrals were wrong.

    We are not talking weeks or months. We are not talking not sending at all.

    Again, to me its not black and white.

    Sure, it is disappointing that people no longer want to ride trains, but as conductors, you know the cost of make up packages being sent or the heartache of someone not having a package.
    It is disappointing - But, its not all trains(for me anyway) - I still plan on enjoying 1(or 5) VWT every week. I do know the cost of a make up package- I have sent them. I know how crappy it is to watch another SC figure out that their buddy was a jerk and didn't send.

    I have said many times that I do not think these three traders would ever do it again, but I would have said the same about other traders who I now have complaints about.
    I'm thrilled you think that. However, a neutral rating doesn't support that.

    The fact is with good traders, ppl feel scared about leaving them bad ratings, I currently have PMs about three users who anyone would think is a great trader with no issues, but the PMs tell me about a history of issues that I can't find in their ratings.

    Is this about pkg ratings- or trading in general? I don't know the details of each situation - so I have no opinion.

    As for being scared of leaving a "good trader" bad feedback - I'm sure in some situations it is the right thing to do. In others, probably not. But without the details.... I'd be guessing at what was "right & wrong".

    Fallen, We are simply going to have to agree to disagree- I don't want to "continue to beat a dead horse" (as you put it).

    If you open a thread to discuss pkg trains - I'll be happy to participate.

    ****I hope the hate mail has stopped. For everyone!****

    Happy Couponing!!


    Last edited by pumpkin9211; Thu, Sep 5th, 2013 at 09:47 PM.
    Trinimoneysaver and bluzsuz like this.

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