I'm hesitant on sending my almost 4 year old to JK

[ruadorklikeme]

We are in Ontario. My daughter will be turning 4 in October. She is supposed to be starting junior kindergarten this September. I'm hesitant to send her as her father and I do not think she is ready at all.

She was late to taking to potty training so I'm afraid that if she were to poop her pants at school she would be stuck in the mess or sent home.
She can count to ten, but she cares nothing at all about the alphabet and can't recognize her name or the letters in her name.
We've been trying it seems like forever to even teach her how to take her shoes off and they are velcro. Undressing herself is next to impossible and she has a complete tantrum every single time we try teaching her or getting her to try. So dressing herself is completely out.

I feel that being in a class with kids around her age and more structure would be beneficial in some ways, but knowing the way she reacts to things that she doesn't know or is frustrated with worries me.

Would I be doing the wrong thing by keeping her at home with us so that we can take this extra year to keep working on the toilet/hygiene, and other areas that need huge improvement before thrusting her into the school system completely unprepared?

Another question, if I did keep her home for one more year would she be able to start junior kindergarten at 4 almost 5 years, or would she be starting senior kindergarten?


Any of your ideas and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[DianneS]

We don't have Junior Kindergarten where I live. My son was not ready for Kindergarten when he was 5 years old, so we did not register him for September of that year. He was ready several months later, at the end of January, and he entered Kindergarten then. It was a great decision for us. He absorbed things very quickly in the classroom and he was excited and ready to be part of the class. He is now starting third year university and received a letter yesterday inviting him to participate in the Golden Key International Honours Society. His grades are in the top 15% for all students in his university. I can say from experience that waiting until a child is ready to have a successful Kindergarten or pre-Kindergarten year will benefit her in the long run. I would encourage you to talk with your local school to see what their policy for late entry is. We were advised that the school likes to keep children in their age group, so the child typically enters the school system in the appropriate grade level if the parent choose a different entry point that the 'norm'.

[frugal50]

sounds like early stages of autism, i'm afraid

have you had her tested for mental evaluation?

[ruadorklikeme]

No I have not had her tested. I did take her to the doctor and voiced my concerns about 7 months ago. I'm leaning towards keeping her from school this year, pushing our doctor to refer me to a pediatrician or a specialist. Also I want to work on some of the academic parts at home as well as joining some social groups for young children to see if it helps.

[i_forget]

Every child develops at different speeds, and since you have mentioned she is behind in all of those areas, I would suggest taking her to a Paediatrician as a precautionary measure.

Now, teachers of JKs and SKs are use to dealing with these things.
If there is a bathroom accident, they will clean up your child and put them in spare clothes.
There are lots of kids who are still in diapers in JK. You just have to let them know and they accommodate.

Children do thrive in a structured environment, and their behaviour is almost always different for a teacher and at school than it is at home.

They do not learn too much in the earlier grades. They learn how to sit on a carpet quietly, structure and basic math and alphabet, plus the seasons, and how to print. It is a lot of fun for them, it is not like the school where you sit at a desk and have to learn for hours. They play, have stories and socialize.

It is also an early opportunity for the school system to see if there are any delays or learning disabilities that a parent may not have noticed.

[bargain_hunter_lola]

No one knows your child like YOU do.

If you truly believe they are not ready, then they are not ready.

The good thing is they will still be able to do BOTH JK and SK if you hold off a year because of when their birthday falls.

I'm sick to death by the people who jump to "autism" because a child is a bit delayed. EVERY child develops at different rates. I'm sure your doctor (and yourself) would have followed up if there were actual signs of Autism. JMHO.

My strong advice is to GO WITH YOUR GUT.

You can always set up meetings with the school and have open frank conversations. Make sure everything is set up ready for your child and their needs before they need it. Some classes have EA's who will help with bathroom duties, indoor/outdoor transition, staying involved/quiet at circle time, etc. but some classes DONT. If the teacher has a big class with no help, it'll be easy for a child to get left behind/not receive enough help. If it's a small class with an EA then your child might thrive incredibly.

There are EXPECTATIONS of kids in JK. They need to be able to know the alphabet, name, numbers up to 20 I think and a few other things. If they dont know it going in, it doesn't seem like a big deal but they are expected to know it to continue on to SK where they are expected to start reading, etc. Although many schools now follow the "leave no child behind" so they might be pushed forward...

Some schools allow diapers, some do not. You'd need to find out what your school is.

I also put in some advice in another thread (Mia's I believe) about Kindergarten. If you want to check that out.

I have a lot of thoughts on the issue because my DD was a December baby with a mild speech delay and a maturity delay. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific/personal questions.

[angel_2011]

You know ur kid better than anyone - if u truly believe that she is not ready, then keep her back. Use the year to prepare her for school, like u said. Try taking her to an Ontario Early Years centre - she will be able to take part in programs with other kids and you will be able to get information about her development as well.

Now regarding bathroom accidents - my son's teacher was very, very clear that if there was an accident there were only 2 options - the child cleans themselves and dresses themselves in spare clothes or the parents are called to pick them up - she absolutely refused to go in the bathroom to help any kids. Also diapers and pullups were NOT allowed - because it encouraged the kids to poo or pee in them - and that could spread germs around the class. I know that from experience cause I sent DS to school in pullups (he was 3 - bday dec 31) - so although he was potty-trained, I was paranoid - and the school called me up to let me know that he needed to be in underwear cuz pullups/diapers were not allowed. So find out from your school what their policy is - every school has their own rules.

I agree with I_forget - they don't learn too much - so ur daughter could have fun. Is she going to be in a full-day program or half-day?

[angel_2011]

gosh i took forever to type up my pm, lol

i agree with everything lola said my son started saying his first words at 2 and by no means is he autistic. He also has maturity delays, like lola's DD. He relates more to kids who are a year younger than him, than those who are born earlier in the same year as him. But when he started school, his vocab improved immensly and he just has a bit of tweaking to do where his social skills are concerned.

[DianneS]

Keep in mind that most provinces do not even have JK...and our students' academic achievements stack up very well against Ontario's. In Finland, students begin school at age seven and have the highest achieving graduates in the world. I am not saying that JK is not valuable or important, just that things need to be kept in perspective.


An internet diagnosis of autism is just silly but I would encourage you to push hard with your pediatrician to have your child assessed. Then you will know what kinds of supports your child will benefit from and what resources are available. The earlier a child receives support, the better. You may find that your daughter just needs a little time and a little help. I found with my son that I had to push hard with my doctor. I wil.never regret trusting my mother instincts....

[frugal50]

i would still get her tested to rule out autism, maybe she has a learning disability or developmentally delayed?

at age four, you have to be aggressive with an early diagnosis.

[lizzie bargain]

Not sure about Ontario but here in AB there is education funding early on to provide extra help to young children who may have some delays in order to help them catch up as much as is possible for them in the preschool years. So I think your idea of going back to the doctor for referral to a pediatrician(see if there is a developmental pediatrician available to see her but any pediatrician is a good start) and requesting an assessment is a good idea-as well you could talk to your school and see if they do assessments and see if there are extra services provided at school or at home to help meet your daughters needs. For eg an occupational therapist can work with the teacher or parent to help with toileting, dressing, feeding and fine motor skills. Is there an early intervention or Infant Development program in your community that you could call for assessment/guidance/advice? You can contact the ministry of children and youth services in your area and ask if they have programs for 3-4 year olds who have been developing more slowly in the areas you describe. Good luck and I hope you are able to get some help in helping your daughter achieve these milestones.

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[ruadorklikeme]

Thank you all for your replies.

The school my daughter would be doing to is absolutely no pull ups or diapers. I was also told that the only thing the teacher and ECE would be able to assist in is helping to change clothes, but not be able to wipe her bottom at all.

[angel_2011]

to answer the second part of ur question - not sure if the school already did that for u, but, my friend didn't send her kid (same age as DS) to school for the JK year - and she was able to enroll her for SK the following year.

[mjaas]

why not let her attend school and if she's having difficultly in adjusting then try to talk to the teacher/principal if you can just home school her.

my son had a classmate at JK and he kept on crying whenever his parents leave him at school. this happened for a week until they (the school) have decided home schooling. SK came and still the same thing. but the principal insisted that he have to attend school this time coz he needs the adjustment when grade 1 comes.

maybe you can do the same for your child.

[vibrantflame]

I know how you feel. Both my sons were late potty trainers. My oldest, who is now 6, was not allowed pull-ups or diapers. However, they would clean him up and everything unless it was really bad or he ran out of clean clothes. Being that you said your daughters school wouldn't clean her up at all, I would be hesitant unless you are able to run there every time she has an accident.

As far as JK goes itself, I am back and forth about how much good it does. I think the social aspect is wonderful, especially if your kids haven't had much social interaction before that (my kids never went to daycare or anything). However, I think children are being pushed more and more to learn earlier and earlier. Like, when I sent my oldest to JK, they told me that he didn't have to know anything before starting, but then 3 months in they are telling me he is "behind" compared to the other kids. And this is stuff that 20 years ago was only being taught in Kindergarten at age 5. So....I don't know. Follow your momma instincts If she can go into JK next year, then there's really nothing to worry about. And even if she can't, whatever she will learn at JK you could teach her yourself (if you have the time and patience.)