Charter of Quebec Values

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Originally Posted by lecale

<snip> Mom who is draped in a tent and masked like a burglar. The less orthodox women might wear long pants, long sleeves, a long tunic coat over that and a hijab out on the trails when the humidex is at 40 </snip>

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Long voluminous clothes actually make sense in a hot climate. The air layer next to the skin helps with persperation and provides a cooling effect around the body. Which is a practical piece of clothing translated into a cultural context and then hi-jacked into a religous reason. And covering the face in desert areas means that sand isn't constantly blowing into your eyes, nose and mouth.

Yes, I know that neither the San tribes of Southern African deserts or the aboriginal tribes of the Australian outback dress that way. Different tribal groups have developed different customs regarding the differing desserts that they live in.

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Originally Posted by Darth Penguin

I know there are some Christian groups, especially in the Quiverful communities who promote highly modest female clothing to "prevent thier brothers from falling into sin".

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Though I'm not religious I've had a lot of interaction with the Quiverful since I share some of their family values (big family folks tend to know each other in this era where it's rare). I haven't found them to dress any more modestly than mainstream Protestant groups.

As of today 49% of francos are in favor of the Charter.

Many debates to come.

One of the PQ was quite miffed at the english press in the rest of Canada for weighing in on this debate.(against of course)

Well if you going to open up a can of worms you better put on your big girl panties and get ready.

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Originally Posted by lecale

http://forum.smartcanucks.ca/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Darth Penguin http://forum.smartcanucks.ca/images/...post-right.png
Long voluminous clothes actually make sense in a hot climate. The air layer next to the skin helps with persperation and provides a cooling effect around the body. Which is a practical piece of clothing translated into a cultural context and then hi-jacked into a religous reason. And covering the face in desert areas means that sand isn't constantly blowing into your eyes, nose and mouth.

Yes, I know that neither the San tribes of Southern African deserts or the aboriginal tribes of the Australian outback dress that way. Different tribal groups have developed different customs regarding the differing desserts that they live in.[/uote]


The women wearing burkas, they have a full set of clothing underneath (long sleeves and long pants and likely a tunic too) they are DEFINITELY not just in their unmentionables under there. So as for the getup being cool...no I don't think so. It might keep your skin fair under the hot desert sun but the fluorescent lights at Walmart aren't going to ruin anyone's complexion. Essentially, if you are blocked by a middle eastern family unit, you have to speak to the man because you can't tell if the woman is even looking at you. I find it creepy because as far as objectifying women: well the woman is reduced to no more than an obstacle in the store. Can't make eye contact, can't talk to her, and she's probably going to become vitamin D deficient lol. It shouldn't be legal to keep your face covered in public. It seems that every other province in Canada is bending over backwards to allow this...

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Sorry..I happened to mention how some of the clothing you described( by snipping out the points of your post, I wasn't trying to comment on) are perfectly balanced for living in a dessert environment..

The holidays I have spent in Egypt, Namabia and several other dessert style environments leave me to consider that the clothing I was describing is more comfortable than shorts and a t-shirt. even in Quebec, I tend to wear clothing like that...not from any cultural or religious bent...simple because I find them better at protecting my Irish white skin..esp as I have leather seats in my car..

I've already mentioned in this post about the whole Modesty culture becoming pervasive in several religions..

I DON'T LIKE the way that women are the gate-keeepers to male sexual response.. Men aren't ravening beasts for whom a glimpse of finger-nail nor a flash of ankle turns them into multiple rapists..Men are as capable of acting responsibly around women as women are around men..

Making women dress-up like Disc-World Trolls
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it is also revealed that the sight of troll women wearing clothes excites male trolls. She says there is a club in Ankh-Morpork where the troll dancers end up wearing seven layers of heavy blankets.

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will still ensure that some man somewhere or some woman who's playing the "More Modest Than Thou" card will still judge you as being a lady of disrepute..

I have no problem with women or men dressing how they like..I have seen several men who look better in a dress than I do.. What I have a problem with is people judging some-one on thier own prejudges regarding how some-one else is dressed and not taking into account how that person may want to wear that item of clothing..

I wear long skirts and short shorts...Am I an extermely modest lady..or a potential wh0re?? What I wear depends on what I am doing, where and when and with whom..

If I chose to mountain climb in scuba gear..what is that to you?? Foolish for me .. but none of (general) your business!

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Originally Posted by Patty Smyth

Well if you going to open up a can of worms you better put on your big girl panties and get ready.

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So glad my biggest undies don't get a vote..

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Originally Posted by fraaazer

In B.C Sikhs are allowed to ride motorcycles with no helmet, due to their beliefs about turbans. A few days ago I saw an south east Asian man riding with his son about 10 years old both with bandana like head wear. Why should we accommodate people from other countries to the point where they do not need to follow our law? Making all Canadians look different is not a good idea. Allowing Sikhs to wear religious head gear while playing soccer is like me sending my son to soccer wearing a huge cross around his neck. Which I do not believe would be appropriate. Just my 2 cents

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That's actually the nuttiest and stupidest thing I've ever heard. I know that some US states have no helmet laws but I didn't parts of Canada had similar laws. Oh well, Darwin will take care of them.

I think the issue is that some people may not have a choice in wearing burkas or hijabs. Yes, a lot of muslim women go out in public and say that it's their decision to wear their hijab etc. But, you have to wonder about all of the others who are not out on the streets. What are their husbands like? I'm sure we've all heard of the brother and father who killed their sisters / daughters / step mother / wife in Kingston. The stories don't end there, and yes, I know that white men can and do control their wives, but they don't tend to use religion as an excuse. Anyway, I'm getting off topic but my point is there are women who are kept "captive" by the religion.

Let me say that I've known several muslims and they were all peace loving people BUT they were also young. They were brought up in Canada and were surrounded by Christian / Catholic kids, so they weren't really immersed in the "old country" ways.

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Originally Posted by Darth Penguin

I DON'T LIKE the way that women are the gate-keeepers to male sexual response.. Men aren't ravening beasts for whom a glimpse of finger-nail nor a flash of ankle turns them into multiple rapists..Men are as capable of acting responsibly around women as women are around men..

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Agree 100% Darth.

There certainly are men who are beasts, no question. But for an entire culture to blanket their women in sheets because the sight of their women might entice the men to become beasts?

The women have to hide themselves in case they cause a man to commit a violent crime against them?

I just don't understand a culture like that.

Bill has been tabled

http://www.citynews.ca/2013/11/07/qu...alues-charter/

The Parti Quebecois has raised the political stakes on its controversial religion bill.
It has expressed a willingness to trigger an election on Bill 60, which if adopted would restrict religious clothing for employees of virtually all state institutions.


On Thursday, it declared the tabling of the bill a measure of confidence in the government. That meant the opposition would have forced an election by blocking its introduction.


It’s still unclear whether the PQ will continue, in the coming weeks and months, to treat the bill as a matter of confidence in future votes.


Premier Pauline Marois held a news conference after the bill was tabled and said she believes the proposed legislation will unite Quebecers.


“We want this debate to take place in a serene atmosphere — a serene and respectful atmosphere,” she said.
”It is a great moment for our society. This a is a beautiful day for Quebec.”

Religious bigotry is still bigotry. ANd let's be honest here, the real target here are foreigners. Very sad.

I haz big target sewn on my back....


oh! wait...I'm the white er right kind of ferringur!

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Originally Posted by vesper

Religious bigotry is still bigotry. ANd let's be honest here, the real target here are foreigners. Very sad.

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Believe me when I say there is only one target, the muslims. They see what's happening in France , Britain and Norway and this is their response.

[QUOTE=Darth Penguin;5709524]I haz big target sewn on my back....


oh! wait...I'm the white er right kind of ferringur![/QUOTE

No. you're not. As a Canadian who lived most of my adult life in Quebec, trust me when I say you are not the right kind of foreigner, not even close. And I agree wth my Quebec brethren on that one.

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Originally Posted by Patty Smyth

Believe me when I say there is only one target, the muslims. They see what's happening in France , Britain and Norway and this is their response.

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And I applaud them. Who would willingly see their culture supplanted by another?