Americans living in Canada- Watch out! The IRS is coming for you.

[MortgageQueen]

The cost of this program will no doubt be passed on to the Canadian tax-payer and consumer.
From CBC news/Nov.25th

Starting next July, Canadian banks will be required to ask anyone opening a new account if they are now, or ever have been, an American "person."
It comes at the behest of the U.S. government and its efforts to “smoke out” tax dodgers.


The Foreign Accounts Tax Compliance Act, or FATCA, was passed by the U.S. Congress in 2010 and comes into force July 1, 2014.


The law forces all banks and other financial institutions outside the U.S. to search for customers who have certain "indicia." Those are markers that show the person may be a U.S. citizen or a former permanent resident who, under U.S. law, must file income tax returns to Uncle Sam no matter where they reside in the world.


The only other country with similar tax rules for expats is Eritrea.
When announcing the law, U.S. President Barack Obama said, “if financial institutions won’t cooperate with us, we will assume they are sheltering money in tax-havens and act accordingly.”


The threat is a withholding tax of 30 per cent levied on every transaction a non-compliant bank has coming from, or even passing through, the U.S.


“Bottom line is: there is absolutely no way that a large, modern financial institution like a Canadian bank or a large credit union could escape FATCA,” says Marion Wrobel, vice-president of policy and operations at the Canadian Bankers Association (CBA).


Wrobel says his organization has been fighting FATCA since it was announced, calling it the “extra-territorial” application of American law.
"The only reason the Americans can do it is because it is a large economy, financial markets are integrated globally," Wrobel adds, "and it is virtually impossible for a large institution like a Canadian bank, an insurance company, a securities dealer, a large credit union to avoid being caught up in a FATCA net."


Starting July 1, 2014, banks will be required to scour the records of all of their customers with more than $50,000 in an account.


They will be looking indicators such as: place of birth, alternate addresses and phone numbers, and past residency in the United Sates. Every file with at least one indicia marker will be ged as a “U.S. Reportable Account.”


At the same time, anyone wanting to open a new account will be asked directly if they are a “U.S. person” as defined by the IRS. Anyone who answers affirmatively will be ged.
Wrobel says refusing to answer the question could also land any Canadian in trouble.


“If you refuse to answer it you could be considered recalcitrant and your information could be reported.”


So far the banks' protests have changed little. The best they have been able to do is take some of the heat off themselves directly. Canada is close to negotiating an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) with the U.S. to implement FATCA.


Once in place, the bank would no longer be required to send private customer information directly to a foreign government agency. Instead, Canadian banks will their customers to the Canada Revenue Agency, and — under the terms of the agreement — the CRA will be the one that automatically transmits all the information to the IRS.

To enact the IGA, the Canadian government would almost certainly need to introduce a new law or amend existing ones to allow financial institutions to breach the privacy of Canadian citizens and residents.


It’s not clear how that can be done without running afoul of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
Constitutional lawyer and expert Peter Hogg wrote to the Finance Department to express his concerns about the proposed deal.


In a copy of the letter released under Access to Information, he says: “To impose on financial institutions the duty to report to CRA (en route to the IRS) the names, addresses, place of birth and date of birth and details of the bank accounts of account-holders identified only by their place of birth in or citizenship of the United States, and all under the implicit threat of taxes, penalties or prosecutions by the IRS, seems to me to be a clear case of discrimination in contravention of [Section] 15 [of the Charter].”


He goes on to say: “There is no mechanism in the Model IGA whereby individuals who are suspected to be U.S. citizens would even know that their personal information was provided, “ Hogg’s letter argues, “thus there may be no opportunity to provide additional information or take other steps in order to prevent the transmission of this information from Canada.”
At best, Hogg believes, it is an infringement “of liberty and privacy,” but possibly also violations of at least three sections of the Charter.


The plan has critics around the world.
"I don’t think it's pejorative to use the term 'fishing expedition,' that term has been used by the U.S. government already and people talking about FATCA — that's exactly what this is," says Allison Christians, the Stikeman Chair of Tax Law at McGill University.
She points out Canada and the U.S. already have a tax treaty that’s been in place for almost 20 years, which allows the IRS to obtain information on specific individuals from the CRA automatically.


"But FATCA wants more," Christians adds. "They want not just the ones we have already identified; they want to, in the words of a former treasury secretary, 'smoke out' the Americans who are hiding."


And this is where many experts believe FATCA might not just be unconstitutional, but also misguided.


"It's not risk-based, it's not targeting known tax havens. It's looking at places like Canada, you know — Americans do not come to Canada for the low taxes," says Wrobel.
Perhaps to add insult to injury, the individual Canadian financial institutions being deputized by the IRS to sniff out wayward U.S. taxpayers need to cover the cost of the added scrutiny, monitoring, and reporting themselves.


The CBA estimates it will likely cost the big banks $100 million each to comply with FATCA.

http://news.ca.msn.com/local/toronto...5502106626#%21

[super807]

Wow! This is ridiculous! How can the US think it has the right to pass laws that affect other countries? This seems to be a case of bullying. They will get what they want because they have the financial resources to make it difficult for those that don't comply, but they have no legal right to do so.

More banking fees in the future of Canadians.

[vesper]

The man is a

He assumes everyone is a criminal and needs lots of rules to keep everyone in line.

[lilo0003]

god grief, like they don't have enough haters...seriously, DH lived in the US from the time he was 7yrs until 13 yrs old. Does this mean he is a marked man

[MortgageQueen]

god grief, like they don't have enough haters...seriously, DH lived in the US from the time he was 7yrs until 13 yrs old. Does this mean he is a marked man

If he's still a citizen, perhaps. Seems to me people better start being careful divulging their place of birth.

[brunt]

It has been the case for a long time now that US citizens must pay US tax even if they live outside the US. Only if they successfully revoke their citizenship can they escape.

What's new is the arm twisting on the banks in other countries.

[tjthemanto]

It has been the case for a long time now that US citizens must pay US tax even if they live outside the US. Only if they successfully revoke their citizenship can they escape.

What's new is the arm twisting on the banks in other countries.

What about green card holders ..I believe that's what they call their permanent resident's ..they are not US citizens ..do they still have to pay taxes , if they live abroad.

Isn't there a double taxation avoidance treaty between Canada & US ..or something like that ..so that you don't end up paying taxes to both the CRA & IRS ?

Imagine CRA taking half your salary & IRS the other half in taxes .. he he he

[Zonny]

What about green card holders ..I believe that's what they call their permanent resident's ..they are not US citizens ..do they still have to pay taxes , if they live abroad.

Isn't there a double taxation avoidance treaty between Canada & US ..or something like that ..so that you don't end up paying taxes to both the CRA & IRS ?

Imagine CRA taking half your salary & IRS the other half in taxes .. he he he

You're certainly not tax exempt if you're not an American. If you're living there, working there, you file income tax there, at least I did when I lived there.

[Natalia Smith]

Nice and informative thread. Happy to find so many good points here in it.

[brunt]

What about green card holders ..I believe that's what they call their permanent resident's ..they are not US citizens ..do they still have to pay taxes , if they live abroad.

Isn't there a double taxation avoidance treaty between Canada & US ..or something like that ..so that you don't end up paying taxes to both the CRA & IRS ?

Imagine CRA taking half your salary & IRS the other half in taxes .. he he he

I am not the expert on this exact thing, but I am not certain that you would get to retain your greed card if you lived abroad. The entire purpose of the green card to to allow you to live in the US with the full intention of becoming a citizen and permanent resident. If you moved away, I believe that you would lose your green card.

Yes, there is a treaty between the two nations. Unfortunately, it does not quite work out to just having to pay the maximum tax of both jurisdictions, sometimes it is a bit more, sometimes less.

Your example of both jurisdictions each taking 50% of your income is why these treaties exist. This very case almost happened to me due to a company controller who did not understand his job. Fortunately his replacement listened to me (over the advice of the person whose job it was to know this kind of stuff) and eventually got it fixed.

[Cupcakes'nCoupons]

DH was born in Arizona and has lived in Canada since age 11. He has never filed any US taxes. We would like to travel to the states but worry that he will be stopped and questioned at the border since he is a dual citizen using a Canadian passport.

Can anyone recommend a cross border tax specialist who can help with filing the necessary forms? How much on average do they charge for their services?

[Aime]

Well, it is particularly troubling that as Canada and the United States work to make the border between the countries more seamless, one side is about to impose a massive new layer of bureaucracy..