Poverty in Toronto

[lecale]

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[torontogal12]

And no one is eating cornmeal for breakfast, lunch and dinner

I know somebody who did. Pasta at every meal. Not war times. She's 32 now. And her and her single mom ate this way not because there was no other food left in the city in war times, but because they couldn't afford more than that. This was in Toronto.

Poverty is different now than it was in war times, which is why people may not appear poor. Today poverty is more like having to work 3 minimum wage jobs to get by. They have a roof over their heads and food on their plates but they can't spend time with their kids so their kids lose out on a parent. And if they lose one of those 3 jobs, it's trouble.

There are people with mental illness who can't work, or have no family to take care of them. Some of them live on the streets.

My friend just had to move to another city. Her rent in Toronto increased so much, she could not pay for it. So she left the city where she grew up and had so many support systems. Now she lives in a city an hour away but has to live in a house with a bed bug infestation that won't die, no matter how many times they've sprayed (five so far).

I have a feeling your post was meant to be more of a rant against charities with big overhead. You are not obligated to give money to people who ask for it. I've learned to politely say no and tell them to have a nice day. I give money to places that I have an emotional connection to (medical research for diseases that have affected my family. A specific program at school that I participated in).

Like you, I like donating my time (so I can actually SEE that I make a difference). But it's getting more difficult to do this in Toronto. There's the ones who won't take volunteers because of insurance issues or the ones who want a crazy time commitment and tell you "don't even bother" if you can volunteer less than 2 days a week.

We are lucky to have a roof over our heads. We all handle our financial situations in different ways. I think it’s just that poverty is not blatantly visible like it once was

[psbudrow]

I just came back from Toronto, downtown actually. Many homeless by the subway on St. Andrews. I think we have to help as much as possible as there are very poor, homeless, hungry people in your great city. One poor girl was very cold, thin and used her only blanket to cover up her dog. My thought is if you can give a little, give. I was shocked at how unaware the average GTA was to them sitting on the cold sidewalks around them talking on their phones, listening to music. Wearing $400.00 dollar boats and carrying around coach bags. Maybe if the wealth was shared a bit then everyone could eat.
I live in one of the poorest areas of NB but we help out our neighbours with free yardsales, soup kitchens, community gardens. We all pull together to help in whatever way we can. I would never want a loved one to be the one sitting on your cold streets hungry, cold and lonely. I coupon so I can give more away.

[Ciel]

Well andit I don't think you know a thing about poverty because you are a homeowner and every cheque that you get from the government just builds your home equity, and yet you seem to think you can speak out and say there is no such thing as poverty, because though you almost fully own a downtown Toronto condo (that the government will pay off for you) you think you deserve to be considered someone who is "poor" who has made it of their own resources. Pfft.

I think the Salvation Army is AMAZING, and if you don't think so you should go volunteer with them first hand to see how they help the city's most unfortunate (who you seem to think do not exist)

How many staff are in these flashy downtown offices where they attempt to get money out of flashy rich people's pockets (rich people who never travel to the seedy parts of town where offices are cheap) Do the necessities of having a small office with a few staff to deal with wealthy donors eclipse the hundreds of outreach workers and volunteers that do the daily work of charities?

Lecale, I'd like to direct you towards the November issue of Toronto Life as the article on the the Rogers family did point out how one family member makes a point to contact family-owned media publications to provide coverage of charity fashion events organized by said person. Why? This is clearly a case of using the family name to get staff at family-owned media places to provide something for no compensation to get publicity and to acknowledgement. Of course, do you think the media places can outright say "----- told us to put that into the issue" rather than use own editorial judgment to ignore or to consider the requests/directives?

It is fortunate that some flashy people can make donation requests to charities or non-profit organizations that help people in the community without the need to see flashy offices or flashy addresses. The donors can know of the merit of staff/volunteer work and how much it means to the persons accessing the outreach services. Not all big-gift donors need naming rights or a new building with their name on it.

What may not be obvious to many people who do not access services or programs of community organizations is how much depends on having volunteers to take on operational or event functions in order to provide the planned programs or services. Volunteers have to balance what they want to give with what organizations may ask them to give. There is not always a two-way discussion about this resource provision. It can be an "our way or no way" scenario. Yet there are some enlightened organizations that have a volunteer coordinator on the team and who is willing to figure out how to match an interest with an organizational need. Some volunteering can requires a payment of fees for clothing or other reason. That does not work for all volunteers, so a matter of treasure applies as a prequisite to volunteering.

I took notice when the United Way of Toronto received some angry responses from the public over one of the staffers having a car paid for by the organization and other perks (due to a newspaper article revealing the facts). The comments on the article indicated that some readers were going to ensure they donated directly to the causes they support rather than send money to United Way because of how the article. Now, United Way supports many other groups from the pool of donations that are distributed and for those groups, the funding is vital yet subject to the vagaries of how much is available to receive.

What I'd like to see is that many groups that offer the same programs/services come under one name or charity because at the end of the day, donors want to see accountability for funds collected, registration with the CRA for the abiilty to give tax receipts for donations, delivery of programs/services promised in the areas that were to receive them and staff willing to be available to help/talk to clients. There can be variations in what different geographic locations offer due to specific needs identified. It just seems there are too many causes chasing the same donor dollars.

I know that the Salvation Army offers shelters like the Lighthouse in Oakville. That project raised a lot of community emotion as it was trying to get planning approval and building permit. I'm sure Salvation Army could see Hamilton needing a Lighthouse or two in the Hamilton area but it will raise emotions if such a plan were ever to be built near a downtown centre or a neighbourhood more concerned about appearances/property values than the fact some of its residents don't have a place to call home. There are pros and cons with any organization but ultimately one expects the merits of the work to outweigh perceptions of staff enrichment via fundraising.

[Andit]

Well andit I don't think you know a thing about poverty because you are a homeowner and every cheque that you get from the government just builds your home equity, and yet you seem to think you can speak out and say there is no such thing as poverty, because though you almost fully own a downtown Toronto condo (that the government will pay off for you) you think you deserve to be considered someone who is "poor" who has made it of their own resources. Pfft.

First, my whole point (which I've clearly not said properly or you wouldn't have misunderstood) is that I do NOT consider myself "poor". According to the stats I am, but that is not my reality. I live a very simple lifestyle, a far cry from what I had before I got so sick.

Now, I could be facecious and say that I was born with a silver spoon and always got everything I ever asked for and lived like a princess and my fairy god-mother handed me the keys to my condo on a silver platter, but that's just not the case. Even tho I was the only one eating more than one meal per day and even tho the meals consisted 90% of potatoes (since that was the cheapest thing to be bought at the grocery store), my parents never ever thought of our lifestyle as living in poverty. And they rented, they never managed to purchase a home (for a number of reasons). As for me, I worked like a dog at as many as 6 part time minimum wage jobs, so I could have enough money to pay my bills and do fun things and save a little (this was after I graduated university and couldn't find a single job in my field). The fact that I haven't been healthy since I was 10 is besides the point, since I tend to push myself a bit more than is likely good for my well-being. I don't think of myself as any better than anyone else, but why should I be considered less important?

And, yes, I am very very lucky that I have a little condo, but that came with a lot of scrimping and saving and sacrifice. And luck. I suspected my neighbourhood would change for the better, I figured I would have to live in as nasty a part of town as you can imagine (drug dealers, prostitutes, folks strung out on who knows what doing things you don't discuss in mixed company) for at least 15 yrs, it only took 5 for things to gentrify. So, yeah, I'm lucky. And I suppose the govt is building my equity, even if the bank still owns a good chunk of my condo (if I live long enough to own it outright, I will certainly be doing the happy dance ). But, unlike what happens when something goes wrong with my Mom's place, if I have plumbing or electrical issues, I'm the one who has to pay for it, no landlord here to call to fix things for me. So, more sacrifice for me. But I certainly won't be whining about how poor I am, and oh woe is me.

I think the Salvation Army is AMAZING, and if you don't think so you should go volunteer with them first hand to see how they help the city's most unfortunate (who you seem to think do not exist)

What makes you think I haven't (it wasn't for me - I helped out at a soup kitchen, but I'm lousy at waitress duties)? Yes, the city's most unfortunate exist. What I'd like to know is how is it that with the city spending an average of $100/day/homeless person (shelter bed, social worker), the province spending who knows how much in terms of medical care, and dozens of charities supposedly helping these 5000 or so individuals, anyone is still homeless?

How many staff are in these flashy downtown offices where they attempt to get money out of flashy rich people's pockets (rich people who never travel to the seedy parts of town where offices are cheap) Do the necessities of having a small office with a few staff to deal with wealthy donors eclipse the hundreds of outreach workers and volunteers that do the daily work of charities?

The charity I referred to is fairly new, and spent $6M on office space out of the $24M they took in. Do you really think their donors are going to be happy with this? Oh and this doesn't include staffing costs (the $200K to the chair of the board is what stuck out to me). How much work can they actually do if the bulk of donations is going to somewhere other than the stated mandate (reminds me of the charity that raised money to help build wells in Sudan, only to turn around and spend the funds on sending kids from a nice part of Toronto to a downtown Bible camp ).



Sorry if what I have said upset you. But those in Toronto have so many resources and so many opportunities. And yes, real poverty does exist. I've seen it firsthand (kids playing soccer in the cemetery among gravestones, while their mother offered me tea, cause that's what you do when strangers happen upon your doorstep - did I mention they were living in the mausoleum?).

[Andit]

I know somebody who did. Pasta at every meal. Not war times. She's 32 now. And her and her single mom ate this way not because there was no other food left in the city in war times, but because they couldn't afford more than that. This was in Toronto.

I spent the first 7 yrs of my life being the only one eating proper meals, my parents often didn't eat. And it was non-stop potatoes, cause that was the cheapest thing in the grocery store.

I have a feeling your post was meant to be more of a rant against charities with big overhead.

Exactly. And with so many charities doing the exact same thing, I can't help but wonder how it is they are all doing the same thing and not making the tiniest of differences.

[lecale]

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[lecale]

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[GracieAnne]

There must be real poverty in London because taxpayers put $250k towards a poverty research centre.

Just for research.

Not to directly help those in poverty.

Just research.

I assume if there is enough poverty in a city like London to warrant such a ******ed expenditure, I assume there must be some poverty in Toronto. (sarcasm btw)

And this thread will be complete if someone next says, "Well when I was young I had it bad, I had to walk to school every day! In the snow! Up hill! Both ways!"

[lecale]

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[GracieAnne]

Maybe it's just my pessimism that finds it hard to believe that things can be done better than they are. If there was some secret or strategy to solve the poverty issue that they would have found it by now.

[torontogal12]

@

psbudrow

sorry you had to see what you saw in Toronto.

There is a homeless shelter a few blocks down from my parents house in Toronto so I am used to seeing homeless people. I will never forget one man who always smiled and said hello when me and my dad would walk in the park. One day my dad came home and said the police were in the park and that they had found the man frozen to death. It really breaks your heart

In Toronto as far as I can tell, the homeless problem is nothing like what I was in Ottawa and Edmonton. I was shocked to see so many people clearly addicted to drugs in Ottawa (I lived there for two years and they were everywhere, I could not believe that the problem was so much worse in such a smaller city), and visiting Edmonton for a few days, it was a lot of homeless teenagers.

Sad that this still happens today

[DianneS]

I work in downtown Vancouver and see many homeless people every day. I live in the suburbs and have been actively involved in volunteer work at a homeless shelter. While.the issues of poverty and homelessness can feel frustrating and overwhelming, poor-bashing is extremely disappointing to me, especially at this time of year. Poverty is a complicated issue and most individuals who are in crisis have multiple factors contributing to.their situation. it is wonderful when people are able rise above their circumstances but not so wonderful to question why everyone else out there hasn't. Gratitude and compassion are qualities to be admired

[Shwa Girl]

poor-bashing is extremely disappointing to me, especially at this time of year.

it is wonderful when people are able rise above their circumstances but not so wonderful to question why everyone else out there hasn't.

Gratitude and compassion are qualities to be admired

[lecale]

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