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Thread: (Almost) Free college/university-ON-2017/18

  1. #16
    tightwad and proud of it! brunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shwa Girl View Post
    Thanks for that update. Not too good -- the tax penalties
    I'll play the wet blanket here - I see where they are coming from.

    The tax credits were put in place under the working assumption that the student was paying the tuition. The logic follows then if the government (taxpayers really) pays the tuition, rather than the student, then why should the student still get the tax credits.

    I am of mixed feelings here. I paid my own way through 11 years and three degrees of post secondary education (zero government assistance through a very odd, and I though unfair, set of circumstances), and I had a financially rough time of it. So from this side, I really would have appreciated the assistance.

    But then again, having paid my own way, absolutely everything about my degrees was researched to the nth degree by me before I put down a single penny. Most of my university schoolmates had their parents footing the bill, and did not take their studies terribly seriously. Many of my high school schoolmates took courses that did not provide for good job opportunities. It is far easier to waste money when it is not your own.

    So here I sit, knowing full well how difficult it was for me to pay my own way through, but also realizing how this focused my study efforts, forced me to take this whole education thing extremely seriously, and also provided me with an A+ education in budgeting, income estimating, expense minimization and planning, for if I had not learned all that, there is no way I could have graduated.

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    Brunt, I really am liking your comment! You are sooooo right about when you pay your own way how much more you will take your studies seriously. Things will all too often get taken for granted when it is all handed to you on a silver platter.

    ...without getting into details, I speak from first hand experience!

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    Quote Originally Posted by brunt View Post
    I'll play the wet blanket here - I see where they are coming from.

    The tax credits were put in place under the working assumption that the student was paying the tuition. The logic follows then if the government (taxpayers really) pays the tuition, rather than the student, then why should the student still get the tax credits.

    I am of mixed feelings here. I paid my own way through 11 years and three degrees of post secondary education (zero government assistance through a very odd, and I though unfair, set of circumstances), and I had a financially rough time of it. So from this side, I really would have appreciated the assistance.

    But then again, having paid my own way, absolutely everything about my degrees was researched to the nth degree by me before I put down a single penny. Most of my university schoolmates had their parents footing the bill, and did not take their studies terribly seriously. Many of my high school schoolmates took courses that did not provide for good job opportunities. It is far easier to waste money when it is not your own.

    So here I sit, knowing full well how difficult it was for me to pay my own way through, but also realizing how this focused my study efforts, forced me to take this whole education thing extremely seriously, and also provided me with an A+ education in budgeting, income estimating, expense minimization and planning, for if I had not learned all that, there is no way I could have graduated.
    Totally agree. I too went to school with people that were there on Mom and Dad's dime. They were there to party for the most part.

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    We saved for all four of our children's education,but they had to take out their own student loans for their first two years. If they get good marks we pay off the loan...if they party and fall on their faces then it is their debt to pay. My last just started post secondary, our oldest two worked very hard at school and the third...lets just say at 27 she is giving it another try because she had way to much fun the first time around!!

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    Hope my OSAP will work out to be better given my circumstances for my year 3 of university. Up until now, most of my tuition and expenses are covered (with loan and grant), but next OSAP applications (Yr.2 Semester 2 and Semester 3) may be a bit bumpy. Hope everything will work out and the new OSAP will give me better options for paying for school
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    As someone that has saved since the birth of my children to help them afford school this plan offends me. But it also bugs me as someone that paid for both my degrees myself. We delayed having a family so I could work between degrees and save up for my graduate degree & as soon paid off one we started saving for the kids RESP. As a working family we in no way qualify for any assistance. Now if one of us quits our job then we do, really is that the intent? As Brunt pointed out when its your money you think long and hard about your choices. With a nearly free ride then the degree becomes something to do with little future planning. School is interesting, but lots of degrees have little real world value without planning. I think a lot more rules needed to be in place to ensure that students are not abusing the system and getting a degree for interest sakes with no intent of using it & taking up the space of an equally deserving paying student. but then abuse is difficult when many programs are already stunningly competitive and nothing less than an 85% grade even gets looked at.
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    Lilo, I agree I harbor some resentment after scrimping and saving for our kids education. I think in order to qualify marks need to be considered as well as what program the student is interested in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frugalbigmama View Post
    Totally agree. I too went to school with people that were there on Mom and Dad's dime. They were there to party for the most part.
    In the last year of high school, my friends who just made it into college/university were getting gifts of jewellery, European vacations, cars and apartments near their new campus. Complained to my parents that I had to work every summer in high school at a factory job (shift work) and did not get the same graduating gifts as my friends. Parents told me to come back a few years and we will see who did well. Yes, many of those friends partied, dropped out or stayed a few years extra to graduate. Parents were correct.

    Parents chipped in a TTC monthly pass or GO train monthly pass once in a while. It was a nice surprise when this happened.
    Ontario votes in 2018. Make your vote count. Remember your hydro and gas bills.

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    Dancing bean paste bun Ciel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shwa Girl View Post
    In the last year of high school, my friends who just made it into college/university were getting gifts of jewellery, European vacations, cars and apartments near their new campus. Complained to my parents that I had to work every summer in high school at a factory job (shift work) and did not get the same graduating gifts as my friends. Parents told me to come back a few years and we will see who did well. Yes, many of those friends partied, dropped out or stayed a few years extra to graduate. Parents were correct.

    Parents chipped in a TTC monthly pass or GO train monthly pass once in a while. It was a nice surprise when this happened.
    Wow, your parents took the long view! I agree with the monthly pass surprise.
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    One good reason for the Ontario government to try to help lower income families with post secondary school tuition is that students may stay away from the private collages that cost a lot. Recent failures of private colleges like Everest College left students with huge OSAP debt and no graduation papers to get a job. Some students were 1 semester away from graduating
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/ever...osed-1.2963307


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    Wow Ontario must be a very wealthy province to afford this and in a good position to offer this. Free university is well and good if the graduates stay in the country and become taxpayers and fund the next group of university students. For example a good number of the graduates from Waterloo are scooped up by American companies. All taxpayers including cashiers, waitresses and those that worked to put themselves through college will be paying for this . A lot of students from other nations recognize what a bargain our education is already, Asia, and the US, especially with the low Cdn $ come here for an education. They pay a significant amount in tuition than a Canadian student does so schools are eager to accept them.
    Last edited by seylz_gurl; Tue, Oct 4th, 2016 at 11:12 AM.

  12. #27
    tightwad and proud of it! brunt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seylz_gurl View Post
    Wow Ontario must be a very wealthy province to afford this and in a good position to offer this.
    Unfortunately, as an official "have not" province and progressively getting more "have not" by the year, we can't really afford this.

    Quote Originally Posted by seylz_gurl View Post
    Free university is well and good if the graduates stay in the country and become taxpayers and fund the next group of university students. For example a good number of the graduates from Waterloo are scooped up by American companies.
    I have three degrees from Waterloo. I wanted to stay in Canada. I stopped counting after sending out 250 applications to around Canada. Zero, zilch, nada. Two applications out to the US, two interviews, two job offers, and one job.

    I have since returned to Canada, but am still connected to a US company. US companies love Canadian university graduates, and many Canadian university graduates love US companies.

    Yes, it is one thing to have a "brain drain", but it is another thing altogether to pay them to prepare to go. It is a stupid idea, financially speaking. While it is nice for the students, it is fiscally irresponsible on the part of the government.
    Quote Originally Posted by seylz_gurl View Post
    All taxpayers including cashiers, waitresses and those that worked to put themselves through college will be paying for this . A lot of students from other nations recognize what a bargain our education is already, Asia, and the US, especially with the low Cdn $ come here for an education. They pay a significant amount in tuition than a Canadian student does so schools are eager to accept them.
    Yup, I foot the bill to put myself through, and now my taxes are paying for others.

    I fully accept and agree that taxes are a necessary part of society. But with my marginal rate over 50%, and my annual income taxes taxes totalling more than five years of annual expenses, and also larger than the total for tuition and books for my whole study of 11 years, I think that it is well past time that governments reined in their spending.

    Government spending is what is known as a zero sum game - every dollar in new spending has to either come out of the existing budget of another area, or out of taxpayers. The governments have to eventually stop treating taxpayer money like a bottomless cookie jar to dole out goodies in return for votes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brunt View Post

    I have three degrees from Waterloo. I wanted to stay in Canada. I stopped counting after sending out 250 applications to around Canada. Zero, zilch, nada. Two applications out to the US, two interviews, two job offers, and one job.

    I have since returned to Canada, but am still connected to a US company. US companies love Canadian university graduates, and many Canadian university graduates love US companies.
    It is happening again. Now. My coworker's niece graduated with a health degree. Zero Ontario jobs and about 100 applications. She left for BC in September, for a 1 year temporary job. She has her sights on Australia, and not staying in Canada.
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    Dancing bean paste bun Ciel's Avatar
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    Australia might be very pricey place to live but if that coworker's niece gets a job that allows her live there, she might
    be inviting relations later on to shrimps on the barbie.

    Alberta was leading the nation as a have province until the oil bubble burst. Ontario has been a have not province for a few years.
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    Two articles on recent realities for the post-secondary students who may not be able to fund all their expenses:

    https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...ity-study.html

    https://www.thestar.com/news/queensp...ourselves.html
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