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Thread: Social Assistance & various Child benefits & low income credits - Question ?

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    Are benefits like CCB ( Canada Child Benefit ) ,OCB (Ontario Child Benefit ), OTB(Ontario Trillium Benefit ), HST/GST quaterly credit included and considered as income while calculating Social Assistance payments aka Ontario Works aka Welfare.

    Are they clawed back or deducted from Social Assistance payments, either fully or partially ?

    And vice versa , are social assistance payments considered as net income or gross income, while calculating various payments like CCB, OCB, OTB, HST credit ? Are they in addition to the social assistance payments and mutually exclusive ?

    I mean if a Single mom with 2 small kids is getting $ 1,100 a month in social assistance based on her situation and circumstances. Will she get monthly CCB, OCB, OTB, and qtrly HST credit on top of the social assistance ? Or will they deduct either partially or fully from the $ 1,100.
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    So far as I know social assistance is not taxable income and does not count in the calculation of these benefits. Since the income is so low, you should be getting max CCTB and OCB. OTB is calculated based on several things including the amount paid for rent per annum.

    Basic needs on social assistance is lower if you're receiving CCTB because they expect you to use that money for your kids needs and less from them.


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    Quote Originally Posted by tjthemanto View Post
    Are benefits like CCB ( Canada Child Benefit ) ,OCB (Ontario Child Benefit ), OTB(Ontario Trillium Benefit ), HST/GST quaterly credit included and considered as income while calculating Social Assistance payments aka Ontario Works aka Welfare.
    A bank or the government would consider just the OW your income.

    Quote Originally Posted by tjthemanto View Post
    Are they clawed back or deducted from Social Assistance payments, either fully or partially ?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by tjthemanto View Post
    And vice versa , are social assistance payments considered as net income or gross income, while calculating various payments like CCB, OCB, OTB, HST credit ? Are they in addition to the social assistance payments and mutually exclusive ?
    Social assistance payments are not taxed so gross income = net income, and that is the income you would declare when applying for other benefits.

    Quote Originally Posted by tjthemanto View Post
    I mean if a Single mom with 2 small kids is getting $ 1,100 a month in social assistance based on her situation and circumstances. Will she get monthly CCB, OCB, OTB, and qtrly HST credit on top of the social assistance ? Or will they deduct either partially or fully from the $ 1,100.
    She will get the credits on top with no deductions.
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    Cool. I will tell her that.

    She still hasn't applied for Ontario Works ( Social Assistance ), some unfortunate and tragic circumstances have forced her into this .

    Husband commited suicide due to clinical depression ! Was laid off and had other issues, even before that.

    I don't think, she is in a position to do a job, as no one is really there to take care of the kids, besides her. Plus day care costs, kids school, juggling kids and job, and everything might be too difficult for her right now.

    Only social assistance might not be enough to survive, it barely covers rent. So all other credits like CCB, OTB might come in handy for food, utilities, groceries, clothes, shoes etc.
    Last edited by tjthemanto; Sun, Nov 6th, 2016 at 03:14 PM.
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    http://www.mcss.gov.on.ca/en/mcss/pr.../index.aspx#ow

    The incomes & exemptions for OW purposes:
    Canada Child Benefit (CCB)

    The Canada Child Benefit (CCB) is a tax-free monthly payment from the CRA to assist eligible families with the cost of raising children under the age of 18. As of July 1, 2016, the CCB replaces the Canada Child Tax Benefit, including the National Child Benefit Supplement, and the Universal Child Care Benefit. The Child Disability Benefit will continue to be provided, where applicable.
    The CCB is exempt as income for the purposes of social assistance and allowable child care deductions are not reduced by the amount of the benefit (see Directive 5.4: Child Care Deductions for more information and see Directive 5.6: Federal Supplements for Families with Children for more information).
    Retroactive Canada Child Tax Benefit (CCTB) and Universal Child Care Benefit (UCCB) Payments
    Any retroactive CCTB, including NCBS, and/or the UCCB payments received by families following the implementation of the CCB on July 1, 2016, will continue to be exempt as income and allowable child care deductions are not reduced by the amount of the benefit (see Directive 5.4: Child Care Deductions for more information).
    Ontario Child Benefit

    The Ontario Child Benefit (OCB), including the one-time down payment, is exempt as income for the purposes of social assistance.
    http://www.mcss.gov.on.ca/en/mcss/pr...irectives.aspx
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    My rough calculation and estimate is that she could get about $ 2,500 per month total tax free for herself and her 2 small kids.

    Around $ 1,100 in Social Assistance per month , $ 900 in CCB total for both kids combined per month, remaining $ 500 in OCB, OTB, HST credit etc.
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    All the best to your friend; take one day at a time. Give thanks for having her precious children and caring friends like yourself. When she is feeling a little better, perhaps she can join us on SC.

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    She may also be entitled to CPP benefits for herself and the children if her husband was a contributor, also up to $2500 towards funeral costs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie bargain View Post
    She may also be entitled to CPP benefits for herself and the children if her husband was a contributor, also up to $2500 towards funeral costs.
    I knew about the CPP funeral costs.

    I Had no idea you could get spousal and family CPP benefits at a young age after the spouses death. I will pass on that info to her. I thought anything to do with CPP was probably after 60-65 yrs of age .
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    There may be college programs for academic upgrading or prep courses that allow applications for transit costs (bus fare) and maybe something for child care. Mohawk College has at least one such program. http://www.mohawkcollege.ca/programs...-upgrading-ace
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    TJ-my 17 year old receives a CPP pension based on the death of her birth father when she was very young. It will continue up to age 25 as long as she is still in school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjthemanto View Post
    Cool. I will tell her that.

    She still hasn't applied for Ontario Works ( Social Assistance ), some unfortunate and tragic circumstances have forced her into this .

    Husband commited suicide due to clinical depression ! Was laid off and had other issues, even before that.

    I don't think, she is in a position to do a job, as no one is really there to take care of the kids, besides her. Plus day care costs, kids school, juggling kids and job, and everything might be too difficult for her right now.

    Only social assistance might not be enough to survive, it barely covers rent. So all other credits like CCB, OTB might come in handy for food, utilities, groceries, clothes, shoes etc.
    My heart goes out to your friend. I can't even begin to imagine the tumult her life must be in right now. Food banks are a good resource for her to help make ends meet, even just to supplement her grocery budget. There are usually also Facebook trading groups that may be helpful in donating clothes/shoes, especially for the kids (there are often a lot of people that will sell a garbage bag of misc clothing as a lot instead of by item). Also make sure she applies for Ontario Electricity Support Program to help with hydro costs - it's not much but every little bit helps.

    Also, not really financial advice, but please encourage her to reach out to her local CMHC and see what resources are available to her for her own mental health. Dealing with a suicide in itself is so hard, but to have the added stress of making sure the kids are still taken care of while she's dealing with her own grief, and the stress of (the lack of enough) money, she will need some serious stress and mental health support. It may also help her deal with the loss faster and help her get back into the workforce to support her family again.
    Last edited by Wandress433; Thu, Nov 10th, 2016 at 01:36 PM.

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    .
    Last edited by johnb56789; Fri, Nov 11th, 2016 at 11:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnb56789 View Post
    I know for myself (not the same situation, but low/no income for benefit calculation wise), for my application for OTB & HST, I had an "income" of $1,000 for the tax year and was able to get $54/month OTB and $69/quarter HST. Another benefit she *may* be eligible for would be the Working Income Tax Benefit, if she makes under $28,209/year she would qualify. For WITB they do count Social Assistance Payments as Working Income, but if she is only getting this amount ($1,100/month), then based on some very rough calculations, for WITB she *could* get a refundable tax credit of $1,844 AND $230.50/quarter. Once again, this is a very rough estimate with some assumptions, but there is definitely help out there for her. Hope my little blab along with everyone else's knowledge will help her to get the support she needs
    No, you actually have to be working for the Working Income Tax Benefit. You don't get it if you are on social assistance - that income does not count.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lecale View Post
    No, you actually have to be working for the Working Income Tax Benefit. You don't get it if you are on social assistance - that income does not count.
    I wasn't 100% sure about that, I was using the Child & Family Benefit Calculator on CRA, it showed "Expected Working Income" inclusions as Social Assistance Payments. But I could be wrong, I haven't done much in the way of taxes, only a few personal returns and nothing actually with the WITB. Sorry
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