When Times Get Tough...What Do You Do?

[jasperandchar]

Arg. The whole point was to keep us out of court and he told us that there was no way this would go to court. I'm freaking out. We see him on Friday so I guess we'll get the information then. I'm pretty upset. Court is going to cost us so much money, money that we don't have.

call the lawyers office today put your mind at ease or be prepared, yes he will bill you for the conversation but you will know what he means, etc.

[jasperandchar]

I can see why a judge wouldn't agree to it. I am sure she needs the money to live today. To support the child. The RESP is not a must. Kids can get loans to go to school.

I do agree with you that RESPs are not a must but from what @win bly11 has posted it seems that the mother (the ex) uses the $ for whatever she wants on top of providing the necessities for their daughter which is why if funds were put aside for their daughter she would have to live more reasonably. Not meaning to offend anyone.

Also as @ ex0ticb3lla said how can the mother survive on $4K or making $4k, she must be on some sort of assistance and with that comes some free services I would imagine to support her end of the necessities for their daughter.

PS I'm not speaking for ex0ticb3lla at all.

[ex0ticb3lla]

I do agree with you that RESPs are not a must but from what @winbly11 has posted it seems that the mother (the ex) uses the $ for whatever she wants on top of providing the necessities for their daughter which is why if funds were put aside for their daughter she would have to live more reasonably. Not meaning to offend anyone.

Also as @ ex0ticb3lla said how can the mother survive on $4K or making $4k, she must be on some sort of assistance and with that comes some free services I would imagine to support her end of the necessities for their daughter.

PS I'm not speaking for ex0ticb3lla at all.

Or is intentionally not working to collect a higher child support payment...thats the usual. Stay on welfare and then you collect the full amount of child support even if you share custody of the child

Also if she was collecting assistance I believe a portion of the child support gets returned to welfare...unless they stopped that?I would more so be questioning her expenses for the child. There is zero possibility she is aiding in supporting that child if she is in fact only bringing in $4000 a year. I would be raising that suspicion with my lawyer and asking for her expenses and what she pays out. There is definitely something "off". Unless there is a reason she isn't working (disability) I would be questioning why she isn't supporting the child.


Also If she is on assistance its really unreasonable to expect your ex to pay for 95% of things when you yourself are not contributing in the least.

[wimbly11]

I don't know for sure if she is on disability. We can't get any information. She did provide her expenses on the papers that were served to us. She has very little. She lives on the reserve so her housing and utilities are covered for her. She essentially is pay very little out of pocket.

We know that she spends and wastes the money. We have witnessed it many times over the years.

The lawyer said because she doesn't work, and DH does he has to pay 95% of the braces and that's just the law. This does not seem right to me at all. I feel like we are getting screwed here.

[jasperandchar]

I don't know for sure if she is on disability. We can't get any information. She did provide her expenses on the papers that were served to us. She has very little. She lives on the reserve so her housing and utilities are covered for her. She essentially is pay very little out of pocket.

We know that she spends and wastes the money. We have witnessed it many times over the years.

The lawyer said because she doesn't work, and DH does he has to pay 95% of the braces and that's just the law. This does not seem right to me at all. I feel like we are getting screwed here.

@wimbly11 if the daughter has native status like the mother she is entitled to a free education as long as she resides on the reserve or returns for xxxx amount of time.

Is your lawyer familiar in dealing with indian status because if he's not I think you need to find a lawyer that is extremely familiar as you will probably save a lot in your child support payments and expenses in the long run.

Does your dh have native status?

You and your dh and your lawyer have the right to demand her working status. and all the monies she receives each month, if she is unwilling to produce such information then do not sign the new paper work. It goes both ways your dh shares his income with her & your lawyer/courts etc to account for what he should be paying.

It's sounds like your lawyer is really not working for you, I'm sorry to say unless I'm missing something. I think you need to delay your Friday meeting and request her employment status, income, etc because sadly it sounds like you're getting screwed.

Native status do not pay taxes on anything and if they do they get reimbursed so that should be a great consideration in your child support payments.

I also believe your lawyer needs to do more of his homework because I truly believe that your step-daughter is entitled to free medical and dental expenses which would include the braces and most likely herself receive a monthly amount from the government if she has status.

I think you are better to delay the meeting and paperwork until you know everything.

I hope I'm not over stepping my grounds here but I think you really need a lawyer that knows the native laws etc inside and out, it may result in you having to find a new lawyer.

For example if your step-daughter has native status and you are paying for her orthodontist you may not have to pay the taxes since you are paying for the treatment on her behalf, one never knows these things.

Best of luck

I truly think you need a lot more information before you both agree to the increase in child support.

Your lawyer should have a lot more information which he should be sharing with you, ask tons of questions.

[wimbly11]

Yes, she does have indian status. We went with this lawyer because he was DHs lawyer in the past and DH claims he is good. I honestly know very little about this topic and DH kind of gave up years ago fighting this because it was a very difficult situation.

With the braces, they did try to get them free through indian affairs. The request was denied, because the mother messed up her paper work or something...we didn't get the full story except that they would not cover them.

You seem well versed in this. Is there somewhere I can go my research? I'm starting to panic a little here.

@wimbly11 if the daughter has Indian status like the mother she is entitled to a free education as long as she resides on the reserve or returns for xxxx amount of time.

Is your lawyer familiar in dealing with indian status because if he's not I think you need to find a lawyer that is extremely familiar as you will probably save a lot in your child support payments and expenses in the long run.

Does your dh have indian status?

You and your dh and your lawyer have the right to demand her working status. and all the monies she receives each month, if she is unwilling to produce such information then do not sign the new paper work. It goes both ways your dh shares his income with her & your lawyer/courts etc to account for what he should be paying.

It's sounds like your lawyer is really not working for you, I'm sorry to say unless I'm missing something. I think you need to delay your Friday meeting and request her employment status, income, etc because sadly it sounds like you're getting screwed.

Native status do not pay taxes on anything and if they do they get reimbursed so that should be a great consideration in your child support payments.

I also believe your lawyer needs to do more of his homework because I truly believe that your step-daughter is entitled to free medical and dental expenses which would include the braces and most likely herself receive a monthly amount from the government if she has status.

I think you are better to delay the meeting and paperwork until you know everything.

I hope I'm not over stepping my grounds here but I think you really need a lawyer that knows the native laws etc inside and out, it may result in you having to find a new lawyer.

For example if your step-daughter has native status and you are paying for her orthodontist you may not have to pay the taxes since you are paying for the treatment on her behalf, one never knows these things.

Best of luck

I truly think you need a lot more information before you both agree to the increase in child support.

Your lawyer should have a lot more information which he should be sharing with you, ask tons of questions.

[jasperandchar]

Yes, she does have indian status. We went with this lawyer because he was DHs lawyer in the past and DH claims he is good. I honestly know very little about this topic and DH kind of gave up years ago fighting this because it was a very difficult situation.

With the braces, they did try to get them free through indian affairs. The request was denied, because the mother messed up her paper work or something...we didn't get the full story except that they would not cover them.

You seem well versed in this. Is there somewhere I can go my research? I'm starting to panic a little here.

Dh has native blood, MIL's siblings all have their status card and don't live on the reserve. MIL never bothered....sigh....if she did get status dh & my kids could get status as it goes 5 generations.

My MIL's siblings and their children do not pay any taxes and if they do they get them reimbursed.

Sometimes I know it's easier to just sign and let things go but your situation is very unique.

If your dh was married to the ex he would have automatically gotten status, I don't know how that works if they divorce to be honest.

Firstly I would get lawyer to request copy of letter of denial and then if she did something incorrectly she can make changes to the application and it would get fast tracked as she already did the paperwork but could have included improper information. And this way you potentially would not be paying for the braces then retainer, etc. Here's my thought and maybe it's a stretch but Indian affairs would potentially not cover because it was not a health issue which could be a reason to not support the decision. As cosmetic is not a reason for such expenses.

Below they won't cover cosmetics, not too be harsh but then why should you be forced to, again not meaning to offend anyone, it's just something that your lawyer should bring forward when making you pay for something that is not a health hazard.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fniah-spnia/p...ex-eng.php#a88

I would call indian affairs or do a google for indian affairs, rights and entitlements or ask the lawyer to investigate.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/I-5/index.html


Her income is non-taxable
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/brgnls/ndns-eng.html


https://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/11.../1100100032295

http://www.fnha.ca/benefits/benefits-information

https://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/14.../1484944042672

[jasperandchar]

@wimbly11 sending you a private message

[Ciel]

I do agree with you that RESPs are not a must but from what @winbly11 has posted it seems that the mother (the ex) uses the $ for whatever she wants on top of providing the necessities for their daughter which is why if funds were put aside for their daughter she would have to live more reasonably. Not meaning to offend anyone.

Also as @ ex0ticb3lla said how can the mother survive on $4K or making $4k, she must be on some sort of assistance and with that comes some free services I would imagine to support her end of the necessities for their daughter.

PS I'm not speaking for ex0ticb3lla at all.

Glad the discussion is asking about housing/utilities because given the low income stated, I thought it probable that the other parent resided with other relatives (not unusual in marriage or relationship break ups due to finances). @wimbly11 identified that the other parent has those items covered due to provision through band council-is this forever as long as the parent lives on reserve or limited until the child is of adult age? So it's very likely there will be transportation costs if school or extracurricular activities or dental provider are situated off-reserve; assume there is a food store unless it too is somewhere off-reserve.

I looked at the Native Canadian Centre of Toronto's community resources. There's a list of aboriginal service providers and one legal entity on the list mentions their services for specific legal situation but provides referrals for family and criminial law cases. So there would not be any benefit to ask it for family law assistance. http://ncct.on.ca/community-resources/

So @wimbly11 and DH likely need to find out on their own before Friday what benefits the other parent gets for herself and child under Indian Act since both have status as the Act is one different area of law that @jasperandchar pointed out. @wimbly11 and DH can check what wording is in current existing agreement regarding how the parents determine which extra activities or trips or whatever is brought up for discussion/consideration--and bring that matter up with their lawyer about the necessity of having a clause about how any extras must be discussed and approved or turned down -the other parent cannot make unilateral decisions that involve extra money from other parent. Is there a clause asking other parent to provide receipts of expenses spent for child with each monthly support payment?
What about the possibility of the child ever living with DH and family off-reserve (if other parent decides not to retain custody or realizes more options exist for child off-reserve or health issues interfere with ability to be home with child)-is there something in the agreement about not having to provide money (full-month or pro-rated amount) for any portion of a month where OP &DH have to take custody of the child? What about any expenses for sudden pickups of child without minimum notice? If the child is about 12 yr of age or so, she is going to have some ideas about what she wants to do with school breaks or work when 14 or friends. Has this been addressed by all parties if the child is known to voice preferences on how her time is spent when not in school?
As mentioned before, there needs to be something said/written about possibility of not having regular monies for support payment if job layoff occurs-what reduced monthly amount if possible could be expected to be provided during such an event? Does that prompt discussion of child moving in with OP & DH to assure she gets her share of food/shelter without other parent needing to provide them?What would the child have to say about changing schools or would she expect a daily commute to her regular school?

[Ciel]

Just noticed that there is a Native Child & Family Services organization for Toronto. Interesting to read the parents' and child's responsibilities and rights. http://nativechild.org/protecting-ch...sponsibilities

[ex0ticb3lla]

I hate to completely sound like a meanie, but you definitely sound like you're being screwed. Your DH seems like he was in my DH's situation a few years ago. He had given up and just wanted to take the easiest route (which sometimes is NOT always the best route). Back story: First court appearance, they shared custody of the child, they returned months later and he agreed to her having primary residence of the child because there was some sad story about losing daycare subsidy if she didn't have primary residence, in return he would get every other weekend. They made a side deal OUT of court that he would share custody 50% of the time. Essentially, she was collecting the full child tax credit, plus all other tax exemptions, and only having to contribute 50% of the clothing, the food, lunches, sports etc he never qualified for subsidy because when he did have his child on certain days, the custody arrangement in court didn't match up...and she would still come up short every month for daycare bills, clothing on her end, lunches were all quick junk and never fruits or veggies. While the father (my DH but was boyfriend at the time) struggled every month to supply for his end and her end. When I finally questioned what exactly was going on, he realized that this was greatly impacting the child. It ended up being settled at complete shared residence and custody...in the end she was more upset that she was losing 50% of the child tax credit, then she was with actually seeing how the child felt.


I am truly passionate about this subject. I sit on both sides. I see what my DH goes through on a yearly basis (child support in shared custody is a whole other topic I could totally go on about for hours...), and what my sons father is going through. I could never imagine trying to put 95% cost on my sons father for something, when we both contributed to making that child and have equal responsibility in sharing his costs. We even settled our child support out of FRO and in 4 years haven't asked once to see his taxes. Its not about the money its about the child. Everyone should be contributing within their means, they shouldn't be expecting the other person to contribute for both parents (court probably went on a sliding scale that because she only earns $4000 a year and DH makes $XX,XXXX amount per year he is responsible for 95% of the costs...but to me if there is no incentive for her to work because she is collecting far more than $4000 a year that isn't taxable, thats completely inadequate and unfair and should be brought before the court)


With that being said, I would push your DH to question more. Question all the money she is receiving monthly. Question where the money is going. I would also be questioning the denial on the braces being covered by her lack of ability to fill out a form properly. She essentially is saying she doesn't care either way because if its covered she doesn't have to pay, and if it isn't she still doesn't have to pay. Theres no accountability to be just a proper parent.


I do agree with jasperandchar ...you need to look into the tax implications further, you need to look into native status and child support payments. You also have a right to see the paperwork from the braces (assuming your DH has joint custody of the child). She legally cannot send ANY paperwork regarding medical and dental without his signature. Trust me, we've been through that with my DH. As for extracurriculars you can ask the courts to limit the amounts you are comfortable with as the mother is not contributing, or you can ask for preapproval to extracurriculars because you are solely responsible for covering the costs (been through this with DH as well haha).

[ex0ticb3lla]

I would also be looking into the lack of communication with DH and his ex, with my lawyer as well. It seems disturbing to me that someone who fails to communicate with their ex about anything and actively avoids it (by not even sending a simple email to say hey I'm about to enroll her in this, are you and your wife ok with this?) has so much control over the activities and costs when they aren't even paying for it! Our court system mind boggles me everytime I turn around haha It almost sets people up to be so vindictive.

[wimbly11]

You are all so wonderful and have left me with a lot of questions for the lawyer. We won't be signing anything on Friday until we have all of the information.

Court did use a sliding scale to determine payments and the fact that we are supposdly going to have to pay for 95% of the braces. I am going to make sure we receive files on every penny of assistance she receives.

I'm going to ask DH about the braces, but I don't think he signed anything for them.

[ex0ticb3lla]

You are all so wonderful and have left me with a lot of questions for the lawyer. We won't be signing anything on Friday until we have all of the information.

Court did use a sliding scale to determine payments and the fact that we are supposdly going to have to pay for 95% of the braces. I am going to make sure we receive files on every penny of assistance she receives.

I'm going to ask DH about the braces, but I don't think he signed anything for them.

Feel free to PM anytime you need anything hun she sounds a lot like my DHs ex. I know how frustrating it can be. Good luck on Friday, nothing is ever fun when it comes to lawyers and court! Just makes sure he questions, he has the right!!

[jasperandchar]

You are all so wonderful and have left me with a lot of questions for the lawyer. We won't be signing anything on Friday until we have all of the information.

Court did use a sliding scale to determine payments and the fact that we are supposdly going to have to pay for 95% of the braces. I am going to make sure we receive files on every penny of assistance she receives.

I'm going to ask DH about the braces, but I don't think he signed anything for them.

It's better to delay signing anything and put the increased amount aside incase things are increased. BUT once you sign there is no going back.

I would seriously question your lawyer about what he has requested from the ex as proof of income because if he's a family law lawyer he should really no better. I would also ask him for a statement of your retainer and review it and question the expenses.

Go in with 1000 questions and right the answers down, even question what your lawyer has requested and or done on your behalf because it seems like he is just going to settle for what she's asking for and not what she is entitled to