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Sun, Apr 8th, 2012, 08:04 PM #46
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omg, this reminds me of what happened last week.
I live in an apartment building, a small apartment building, with apprxo 12 units.
we have the old style buzzer to get in.
So im coming home from work one day and see something sticking out from under my door.
I bend down and pick it up and its so leaflet for some praise jesus thingy.
I was so insulted I crumpled it up in a ball and left it in the lobby.
#1 HOW did they get into my apartment building when you cannot get in without BUZZING someone who lives in the building.
#2 what right do they have to canvass religious phamlets under my door?
#3 it doesnt matter what religion you are, it is definitely not cool to force your beliefs on others.
so yea i know exactly how you feel
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Sun, Apr 8th, 2012, 08:18 PM #47
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While I don't really believe in any specific religion, I am glad you've been so open in sharing your beliefs with us MQ. I was a bit worried when this thread started because you never know who belongs to what religion and who you might be offending. A good friend of mine was a JW when she was younger (not anymore though), but I've heard SOO many people say some really means things about JW around her, without having any idea. It's nice when you can have an open, honest conversation about beliefs, or the difference in, without any name calling, rudeness etc etc. Hopefully no one here offended YOU either as you've been nothing but honest in your answers.
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Sun, Apr 8th, 2012, 08:38 PM #48
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Mon, Apr 9th, 2012, 01:33 PM #49
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MQ, I do agree with some of the things you say. I definitely don't mean any disrespect or want to be antagonistic but I did want to mention a few things I've seen, heard, and read. I should also mention that I'm not an authority on these matters and my background is not JW, so I am completely unfamiliar with what JWs believe.
This is Jeremiah 7:30-32 (NIV) according to biblegateway.com:
30 “‘The people of Judah have done evil in my eyes, declares the LORD. They have set up their detestable idols in the house that bears my Name and have defiled it. 31 They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. 32 So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room.
God seems to be referring to children being burned in the fire at Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, which was a place of child sacrifice by the Canaanites in Jerusalem according to wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topheth God said the sacrifice of children was evil - something he did not command or think of. I don't think he was referring to hell. Here's the passage in context:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...34&version=NIV
The Book of Ecclesiastes is part of the Old Testament and scholars generally believe it was written near the time of Jesus' birth, so I don't think it was Jesus' words in Ecclesiastes. If you mean Jesus as in God, then I agree if you meant it was God's words.
Poirot didn't mention anything about fire, but Jesus did mention fire in hell in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 18:9, and Mark 9:43 (also from BibleGateway.com, NIV):
Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
I think fire exists in hell, but I don't know that it's only a fire pit. There may be areas where there isn't fire, I don't know.
Again, I'm not really here to debate (it's one of my pet peeves) or to ruffle anyone's feathers. This forum is not meant for that or religious debates, but I wanted to contribute what I understand in the limited capacity I have. I'm not an expert by any means, but I do read a little and thought I'd share some of the things I've come across.
I do think the JWs are very brave to spend their time out knocking on people's doors and initiating conversations with strangers. I've been asked to solicit donations for the city's food bank at major sports events and it feels really horrible when people look past you as if you don't exist or shut you out. A no thank you would be great. At least they're acknowledged as a human. For some, it's hard to imagine the JW at their door or saying hello on the street would really be more comfortable at home watching a movie or spending time with friends. I don't think any sane person actually thinks rejection is fun and wakes up each day looking forward to it. I do believe JWs are people too and it takes a special kind of courage to do it over and over again.
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Mon, Apr 9th, 2012, 01:44 PM #50
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And to respond to Marstec, you're not a crank. I actually don't even answer the door unless I'm expecting guests. The answering machine screens all my calls and I check my call display if I'm not home.
You know you've got true friends when they're that persistent to get a hold of you, call you with their cellphones standing on your doorstep, suffering through your generic answering messages, wave from your patio window..... Oh, I do appreciate all my friends though!
I could be training for debt collection agencies!
If you're a crank, I'm right there with you!
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Mon, Apr 9th, 2012, 02:15 PM #51
I don't have caller id, so if my family wants to get a hold of me, they know to leave a message or call back right away.
I don't mind being a crank...seems I have a bit of company.
Thanks to everyone for participating in this discussion and sharing your unique perspectives. I hope there are no hurt feelings because of it...that was never my intention.
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Mon, Apr 9th, 2012, 02:42 PM #52
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Tara, I love learning about beliefs that are very similar to mine, but i don't want them knocking on my door thanks!
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Mon, Apr 9th, 2012, 04:53 PM #53
[QUOTE=sweet sparrow;4589570]MQ, I do agree with some of the things you say. I definitely don't mean any disrespect or want to be antagonistic but I did want to mention a few things I've seen, heard, and read. I should also mention that I'm not an authority on these matters and my background is not JW, so I am completely unfamiliar with what JWs believe.
Dear sweetsparrow. .. I am not in the least bit offended. I thought we were merely having a discussion. That's what I like about most members of SC. They can voice their opinion without being rude or insulting. . . and you are neither of those!
This is Jeremiah 7:30-32 (NIV) according to biblegateway.com:
30 “‘The people of Judah have done evil in my eyes, declares the LORD. They have set up their detestable idols in the house that bears my Name and have defiled it. 31 They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind. 32 So beware, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when people will no longer call it Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter, for they will bury the dead in Topheth until there is no more room.
God seems to be referring to children being burned in the fire at Topheth or the Valley of Ben Hinnom, which was a place of child sacrifice by the Canaanites in Jerusalem according to wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topheth God said the sacrifice of children was evil - something he did not command or think of. I don't think he was referring to hell. Here's the passage in context:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...34&version=NIV
Sorry if I did not explain myself very well there. What I was referring to was the "act" of burning a human in a fire was despicible to God (in this instance/example) and it even states that such a thought did not even "enter his mind".So why would he ever dream up such a horrible place as a burning Hell to torment people? You could think of it this way. A decent yet quite imperfect human being would be horrified and repulsed at the idea of punishing a naughty child by holding their hand over a fire or flame. So why would the "God of Love" ever conceive of such a thing??
The Book of Ecclesiastes is part of the Old Testament and scholars generally believe it was written near the time of Jesus' birth, so I don't think it was Jesus' words in Ecclesiastes. If you mean Jesus as in God, then I agree if you meant it was God's words.
Again, my fault. I wasn't clear. No I don't believe Jesus is God (yikes! that's a whole different topic!
. . and I didn't mean to infer it was Jesus speaking in Ecclesiastes.
Poirot didn't mention anything about fire, but Jesus did mention fire in hell in Matthew 5:22, Matthew 18:9, and Mark 9:43 (also from BibleGateway.com, NIV):
Matthew 5:22
But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Matthew 18:9
And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.
Mark 9:43
If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.
I think fire exists in hell, but I don't know that it's only a fire pit. There may be areas where there isn't fire, I don't know.
I can't say I'm too familiar with Biblegateway or which translations they use. Many translations use the words Gehenna or Hades as well. This is one very important area where a study and cross-examintion of the complete Bible is so crucial, because in contrast to what many say, the Bible doesn't conflict with itself. For example. . . the scripture I quoted earlier saying "the dead are conscious of nothing at all" and the one you quoted implies a danger of being in "the fire of hell"(after death).
So which is right? It seems they say opposite things. (the following is the "short"explanation)
Well they're both right. Gehenna (or hades or Hell) was in fact an actual place. Evidence indicates (from Scholars other then JW's that this was a place in the valley of Hinnom where the people burned their garbage and carcasses (occasionally adding sulphur) so that it was completely burned up and destroyed.
So Jesus was using Gehenna or Hell as representing utter destruction. So in that way, it makes complete sense for you as a person to "avoid" such a destruction, you would be "better off" to destroy the "eye" or the "hand" that might lead you into that destruction.
Another example of that symbolism is in the bible book of James 3:6 "Well, the tongue is a fire. The tongue is constituted a world of unrighteousness among our members, for it spots up all the body and sets the wheel of natural life aflame and it is set aflame by Ge·he′na.
So obviously here again an "unrighteous tongue" is not set on fire by Gehenna or hell but is a symbol of it's destructiveness.
Again, I'm not really here to debate (it's one of my pet peeves) or to ruffle anyone's feathers. This forum is not meant for that or religious debates, but I wanted to contribute what I understand in the limited capacity I have. I'm not an expert by any means, but I do read a little and thought I'd share some of the things I've come across.
I'm glad you did bring these things up Sweetsparrow. Thank-you. I obviously left holes in my explanation. ( and probably did again. . .sigh)
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Wed, Apr 11th, 2012, 04:56 PM #54
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My family isn't as polite as the rest of yours!
My mom had JWs come to her house once. She told them flat out that she'd be dead if it wasn't for blood transfusions (they're against them, to my knowledge, could be wrong, it has something to do with the purity of the human body). After she told them that they tried even harder to convert her. She just stood there with her hands on her hips and yelled "I AM ALIVE BECAUSE OF A BLOOD TRANSFUSION! Do you people not get it? If it wasn't for that transfusion I'd be DEAD." I think the sight of a pissed off Scottish woman scared them because they never came back.
I was far more rude and immature with them. When I was about 18 they came to our door. I'd had enough. I respect people's rights to religion, I just wish they, including all religions, would respect my right not to be religious. So I decided to have some fun. I opened the door with my hair all a mess, my clothes all disheveled and panting like mad. I just looked at them and said "WHAT? You just interrupted the best sex of my life!" They ran away pretty quickly.. and never have come back!
It's so childish and immature, but it worked lol!
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Wed, Apr 11th, 2012, 06:55 PM #55
Well, That IS kind of funny. . .I have to admit. We've had people come to the door naked too. . .which is also funny if you can carry on a conversation with a straight face (which I can totally do) I just have to control myself from all the remarks that pop into my head ,like . . . (glancing down) saying, Oh dear. . . I'm so sorry. . . .
THAT is truly the tough part.
Re Blood; there's a new documentary coming out this spring (which has absolutely NOTHING to do with JW's) sneak-peek here.
http://www.asiageographic.com/productions_pnn.html This is actually very old news to us, but may come as quite a surprise to others.
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Wed, Apr 11th, 2012, 07:54 PM #56
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Wed, Apr 11th, 2012, 09:47 PM #57
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Thu, Apr 12th, 2012, 03:34 PM #58
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Inside voice...inside voice!!!
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Fri, Apr 13th, 2012, 07:14 PM #59
sweet sparrow,
Does this mean there are voices in your head speaking to you? That usually means you are goin' squirrelly, not cranky.
Anyone else disgusted at other people's hygiene habits? I was at Safeway today and as I stepped out of my car, I noticed that someone had hucked out two huge wads of greenish phlegm. Totally disgusted...I briefly thought about moving my car to a different spot! Last week, as I was waiting at a stop sign, I looked in my rear-view mirror, just in time to see some guy pick his nose and eat it!
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Fri, Apr 13th, 2012, 08:19 PM #60
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