Courts, Lawyers and Judges =Dewey Scruem and Howe

[theweaves_dad]

Okay Chris was supposed to have his Careless Driving trial today. His paralegal called him yesterday to get him ready in case he needs to testify and everything.

So he goes there this morning and he said no one was there, no witnesses, no cops, no one! It was him, his two paralegals and the Crown. So after talking to the Crown for a minute, the paralegals tell Chris to wait for them, they will be right back. So Chris is thinking "Okay third adjournment, my paralegal said he will file for too long of delay now!" His paralegals come back and tell Chris to come with them.

They go into a room and he sits down. They tell him that he can plead guilty to "Failure To Share Road" and it is only 2 points instead of the 6 for careless. But it is a $750.00 fine. So Chris says "Well I thought we had a good case to fight it.", all of sudden he gets told that "Well the thing is, if you get convicted, the Crown will be asking for jail time." Well Chris just went numb.... He still did not say yes though.... They kept telling him about how he would keep his license, insurance would blow the roof off etc etc... finally he says yes....

They go into the court room and the judge and takes the plea and tells him it is $750 plus court costs (he can't remember if the Crown told the Judge or the Judge said it first). Anyhow judge tells him six months to pay and off he goes.....

Then we got thinking later "The fine for careless is only $400, is the fine that high?" So I google it and found it on a site "Failure to share the road-$110 SET FINE.

So now Chris wants to know WITH went on today????? He is going to the court house tomorrow morning to try and make sure he was not hearing things or something...... The more he thinks about it, the only time he has heard of a jail sentence for careless is if you kill someone... Even then the Crown will usually let you know that high of penalty. So he wonders if the paralegals just told him that knowing that would tip it. But why the high fine? Did the justice just say yes to whatever got put to him?????

If he finds out that it is not supposed to be that high, he is going head hunting for every single person involved in this. Plus he wants the $1000 back from his paralegals, plus he wants "not guilty" on all charges. That is a start.

Just when you think it is over!

[betholio]

Is this the one and only time he's caused an accident (been charged with a traffic offence)? I was just wondering. Maybe if there has been past charges jail time is a possibility?

[marstec]

I know nothing about the correct legal process, but I thought if the police and/or witnesses didn't show up, then they toss out the case?

My brother-in-law is a policeman and he used to talk about showing up in court for traffic cases. Years before, my sister (his wife) went to court to dispute a speeding ticket and it was tossed out because the traffic cop did not show up (there was no one to testify against her).

[theweaves_dad]

I know nothing about the correct legal process, but I thought if the police and/or witnesses didn't show up, then they toss out the case?

My brother-in-law is a policeman and he used to talk about showing up in court for traffic cases. Years before, my sister (his wife) went to court to dispute a speeding ticket and it was tossed out because the traffic cop did not show up (there was no one to testify against her).

That could be. I have read about it happening. Maybe that is why the "plea" was pushed so bad...

[theweaves_dad]

Is this the one and only time he's caused an accident (been charged with a traffic offence)? I was just wondering. Maybe if there has been past charges jail time is a possibility?

It is always a possibility as the law says it is allowed. That said, the two other "plea offers" were for guilty to careless and a fine. If the Crown wanted jail, Chris could have qualified for legal aid and had an actual lawyer represent him. LA won't do anything unless jail is being sought as punishment. For all Chris knows, the Crown may not have said anything. Chris now thinks about how he would call the paralegals asking questions, asking why no 11(b) application? Chris gets involved in his legal affairs, he does not sit back and watch. Maybe these two just did not want to pay out the $$$ (since they cannot bill Chris for it, it is part of the retainer)? Another possibility would be they did not want another day since they are only paid a lump sum and this is 4 times for this case. Both paralegals are from out of town.

Chris is going to the court tomorrow to try and find out what is going on.

[saveadollardiva]

Honestly I would have fought it, if I didn't do anything wrong why am I going to to say yes? I know the jail time is a big thing, but if there were no witnesses, no cop nothing I think you have a pretty good chance.

[theweaves_dad]

Ok here is the latest.Chris went to the Provincial Court this morning. When he went in, his paralegal was sitting there. So Chris asked him what the exact charge was and why the fine was not $110. He was told that once charged under a Part III offense there is not "set fine" and the judge can impose anything. He also said "well you avoided jail". Chris told him he was appealing it, and the paralegal clammed up after that.

He then was waiting for the clerk, when he saw an OPP officer walk into a room with a guy. When she same out, he asked if she was the officer who charged him (he gave her name). She said yes. He asked to speak with her, and asked her why she was not there yesterday. She said that she had not been informed of the court date and was "waiting for it be set for trial again." Chris then told her about what occurred yesterday and that he was told the Crown was seeking jail. Her reaction was "You're kidding right?".

Chris then tried to ask the prosecutor a question but was told "I cannot talk to you, you have counsel, talk to him." and he kept going. So Chris went to the clerk, ordered the transcript and got the papers to appeal the conviction and fine.

He also found out that if a Crown is seeking custody in a case, he is to advise the defendant ahead of time as he eligible for Legal Aid for the charge. Chris did not get that obviously. The one time he spoke with the Crown he was told he would seek a fine of $800 and suspension.

Chris thinks that the paralegals did not want to continue the case since he was "promised 11(b)" if no trial on April 30. To do that, they would have to order transcripts for each appearance, written argument etc. He thinks they did not want to pay the expenses.

So he is asking the appeal court to quash his conviction and throw out the careless, or order a new trial so that he can file 11(b) application on his own and ask for costs.

[saveadollardiva]

^ good for him, something didn't sound right. I hope he wins!

[theweaves_dad]

Chris is kicking himself that he did not go with his first gut feeling and tell them no. That would have been much easier then what he has to do now. He was feeling the pressure to make a decision and he thinks that the word "jail" jolted him into going for it.

When he got thinking about it more last night, he realized he has never heard of a case where someone got jail time for careless, maybe if someone was fatally injured yes, but not in a case like his.

Personally I think that he should drop it, pay the fine and move on. There is always the chance that he wins the appeal, goes to trial and loses... he says he will research and think about it. He does have up to 30 days to put in the paperwork for it.

[saveadollardiva]

^ I think he should look into it and appeal it. Can he not sue for getting the wrong legal advice? Like come on jail for that? when there isnt even a jail sentence?

[Minou]

It sounds like he's having too many legal battles lately. It might be better (mentally, emotionally, financially) for him to drop things and work on moving on with his life. Has he figured out what his next step will be?

[Insane]

Personally I think that he should drop it, pay the fine and move on. There is always the chance that he wins the appeal, goes to trial and loses... he says he will research and think about it. He does have up to 30 days to put in the paperwork for it.

I'm with you on this one. At some point it's better to put it all behind you and move on. Since he accepted the plea it's going to be a huge battle and headache with no guaranteed results it will get tossed. It might just be worth his own sanity and welfare to pay it and move on with his life. But that's just my 2cents worth!

[Natalka]

Gosh, I agree with Insane, time to pay the fine and just wave goodbye to it all.
In Sask. there's a 'fine option' program, where if one can't afford to pay a fine, you can work it off in community service - is that an option in your province?

My husband had to do this once when he got a ticket and we were broke, he worked the hours off at a soup kitchen.

[Tweetybird999]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why he does not talk to a lawyer, not a paralegal. Although anyone can read case law and legislation, there is a lot more that comes with a law degree.

[Poirot]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why he does not talk to a lawyer, not a paralegal. Although anyone can read case law and legislation, there is a lot more that comes with a law degree.

Lawyers cost a ton of money.