Do young homeowners have a sense of entitlement?

[Granger]

Oh! I forgot to add that my generation has to save for retirement too. Not like we're going to be getting a pension or anything like previous generations

Pension loss is a concern of mine. My financial advisor has assured me of my government pension and says I can count on my teaching pension. I am not sure about the teaching pension. I am paying through the roof for current pensioners and my pension plan keeps getting worse and worse due to pension deficit. It is the new generation of teachers/employees that get hurt by this scenario. I know off topic, but torontogals post struck a chord.

[shirl57]

Oh! I forgot to add that my generation has to save for retirement too. Not like we're going to be getting a pension or anything like previous generations

This above quote along with a portion of your lower quote:

"I have only one friend who owns a home. Not a lot of people my age (30) can afford to even buy a home, ever. And if that's the case, why is travelling, having a nice dinner, or nice clothes so awful? Is it entitlement? You can't take it with you and if you can't put it in a home, why keep it in a bank account? And no, I'm not suggesting people spend money they don't have, just make the most of what they do have."

Having nice things definitely is not an entitlement. It's the having these things and expecting others to foot our bill is the entitlement part of it. Or the starting of a new job and expecting to land the president or vice president of a job right from the get go, as a good worker not only needs book smarts, but needs work experience, to eventually get to that high spot. To expect to land that highest position right from the get go is the entitlement part of it.

Also, it's not the generation, and I have to include myself, as sometimes I think that too, but it truly is the person aspect, as just as someone mentioned in this line of posts, we have the "entitlers" and "non entitlers" in every generation. That is very true.

I, too, could not afford to buy a home until I was in my mid 30's because I simply didn't have enough money, but from the time I started working, I rented and faithfully kept saving some money from every paycheque, sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less depending on the unforeseen expenditures during that pay period, alongside of enjoying my life, albeit not in an outlandish way, ie sewed and bought clothes but always looked for specials, always had a car but was never a brand new car, and just recently was able to buy my first almost brand new car (1 year old with hardly any kilometres) but to me it's a brand new car considering all my others were always 6 to more years old upon my purchase, in my very late 50's, and went on small vacations or just took my holidays and relaxed at home when I couldn't afford a holiday, etc etc. I always believed I could still have fun and/or enjoy things in moderation but always relative to the $$ of my pay cheque.

You also commented that the younger generation is not as lucky due to not getting the pensions that older people get. That might not be 100% true.

Some people who work in a place where work pensions are available also have to pay equal to what the company will give as a pension so it comes off each cheque whether they like it or not. I think some people may not be aware of that and believe that it's just given to them upon the time they retire from their work. So on top of that $100 or whatever the work place deducts automatically off each work cheque during the entire time with that work place, they still somehow try to manage to at least put away even a little bit more every month in the bank for their future (retirement), whether it be $5, $10, $20, even $2.00 eventually adds up over the years.

Some people who work in a place where there are no work pensions available, save and do put some money into the bank (for their retirement), even while they are enjoying their life in a moderate fashion, again $5, $10, $20 or even that $2.00, whatever a person can afford.

Then at the end of the day, and we all qualify for this if we have been working, from the age of 60 years and up, we apply for CPP (Canada pension plan) benefits (because the government has been deducting also a portion of each cheque for all the years a person works), so that is part of retirement. On top of that, at age 65 we also all qualify for OAS (old age security) which means we get that amount too for the rest of our lives, along with the CPP benefits.

If a person has even put a little bit away from each cheque during our working career, no matter what the job was, even though we have all our daily living expenses (and we all do), on top of unexpected costs that come our way in life (and we all do), we then can live off our CPP and OAS, and when necessary, supplement a little bit here, a little bit there, for the rest of our lives, from the money that we ourselves deposited into the bank all of our lives.

When we are young, retirement seems a million miles away and almost foreign to some people. So when we are younger, we ask ourselves, why are we saving, for what, and it becomes very frustrating (because there's nothing to show for it). Yet, when we get closer to that age era of retirement, somehow it has more importance, and we thank our lucky stars if we have saved (even a little bit), and boy are we thankful for that at that time.

But we are all individuals with various thoughts on what works best for us, and we all adapt to our individual situations, and that is the way it should be. Because no one person is the same as the next person, just as everyone has a different personality, that's what makes us all unique ... individuality.

So this is in answer to the fact as it is a falacy that everyone gets a work pension at retirement. That's not true. What is true is that if we have worked during our lifetime, we ALL will receive CPP and OAS benefits (and if we have anything saved, even a little, the latter will supplement retirement costs for the rest of our lives). The bank deposits can be extended (money made on that money by way of RRSPs, TFSAs, GICs, or even just a savings account, etc. in the mean time over the course of our working life.

At the same time, we should try to enjoy our lives, otherwise why do we work. But the secret is that it has to be done in moderation, so that we can also enjoy an equally long somewhat relaxed life in our golden years (retirement years).

[Natalka]

People in every age bracket overspend.

I am really really tired of this young people being entitled argument being rehashed everywhere.I think everyone should read this and see the math: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle10327284/.

College and university degrees cost much more than they ever did for generations before. Young people are in debt because of student loans. They were promised that degrees would get them jobs. Those jobs never came. So how do you pay down this debt?

Some of my friends have had to go back to school and pay upwards $15K to get jobs in more in demand fields. That's on top of the previous debt. Does that sound entitled? More like doing whatever you can to make ends meet.

Some of my friends can't afford to get married. I haven't been to a wedding in 2 years (my own!). One of my friends scraped together enough money to have a small, lovely wedding after living together nearly 10 years, but couldn't even afford a drive to Niagara Falls for the weekend to get the honeymoon they deserve. Supporting their son is more important. This is entitled?

I have only one friend who owns a home. Not a lot of people my age (30) can afford to even buy a home, ever. And if that's the case, why is travelling, having a nice dinner, or nice clothes so awful? Is it entitlement? You can't take it with you and if you can't put it in a home, why keep it in a bank account? And no, I'm not suggesting people spend money they don't have, just make the most of what they do have.

Meantime, I'll keep paying rent to my landlord who lives in Hong Kong. In the long run, it is cheaper than buying a home at ridiculous prices they're at right now.

Oh! I forgot to add that my generation has to save for retirement too. Not like we're going to be getting a pension or anything like previous generations

I don't fundamentally think it's worse now; it's just different. And it's not bad just for the 20-somethings, everyone is feeling the pinch now.

Some points I want to bring up, though. I graduated high school in 1978, my sister did in 1976, so those years I'm obviously very familiar with to help compare them with this past decade - when my huge pile of nieces and nephews have finished school, went to post-secondary education, entered the workplace, had families, etc.

When I went to university in the late '70s, early '80s, very few students had cars. We bussed it or hoofed it. Period. No money for cabs even after that rare night out for cheap draught (yes, it was 50 cents) - we walked home in the wee hours of the morning. Crime? Well, that didn't matter, we had to get home...
Yes, even taking into account the huge obvious difference in technology between now and then, back then hardly any one had whatever was latest and greatest at the time - I had a clock radio, period, though some had little boomboxes. I lived in rez through my first university stint, and when I was moving out to work, I had a tiny B&W tv - yes, colour existed, but it was way out of price reach. (Similar to us in present day having had a 21" old style tube TV til recently we got a free 32")

Lifestyle is a BIGGIE. It's not that we didn't have fun at university, but gosh, we couldn't go out all the time, my trips home (one and a half hours away) were restricted because I had to take the bus and it was expensive. But now it's 'nothing' to jump in a car and drive that far -
No one ate out - it just wasn't done, you couldn't afford to. That included even grocery takeout stuff. I remember my first year university about 10 of us going to a pizza joint JUST so we could DO something, and we shared a small cheese pizza - 10 of us!

On to choices as to what type of post-secondary education and what to do for a career - I started uni wanting to be a high school teacher, and once I discovered I didn't during that first year, I switched colleges and thought then that I would go on to be either a social worker or a journalist.
Well, after finishing my degree in English and Sociology (no, not a marketable degree really), I got a job at a regional college as a receptionist, but ended up doing a lot of counselling, since that was my background. Bonus was it was a provincial government job, so very good $$$. Lived in the basement of an old lady's house, crappy furniture, etc.

Went to my credit union for a loan for my first car in spring 1981 - interest rate was 21 per cent. Yup. Really.
Just imagine buying a home at that time, or renewing a mortgage....

Then I had a chance to work as a writer/photographer for a newspaper - but it meant taking a huge cut in pay - however, I couldn't pass up the chance, so I did it. Well, hours are 18 hours a day for very little money and the stress was crazy - so there went that potential career prospect. Turned out it would be similar if I went back and did social work.

Decided the best plan of action after working out two years was to go back to uni to get my Elementary Education degree, so I did that - and it was the best choice ever. Teachers needed: always. Maybe not exactly in your chosen city, or even chosen field, but as with any career, flexibility is key. I, the big city girl, had to move to a teeny town - but got three years' experience in primary teaching, which I loved. Then BOOM marriage came, and I moved back to the city, and got a job teaching computers - then went on to teaching ESL to adults and adolescents, inmates, etc. Not what I planned to do, but what I HAD to do - and ended up liking it!

So fast forward to a more current generation regarding choice of career and work - those younger ones in my family chose a career, got their education and worked darned hard to find and keep gainful employment.
Sure, sometimes it doesn't work out - one nephew of mine, his 'dream' career was to work in forestry, so he moved to BC from SK to go to school, worked a year, found the industry had totally bottomed out - ended up moving back to SK, went through five years of apprenticeship for sheet metal, and had made a good life for himself and now, his family.

Of my nieces and nephews who are married (about 10 in their mid 20s to late 40s) with families, all of them have careers, houses, etc. - they have worked hard for them; they don't take things for granted, they don't waste money - it's amazing how grounded and practical they are; they have great lives. They are in Edmonton, St. Albert, Saskatoon, Regina, northern AB...

Students loans - of course this varies with individuals, their circumstances, families, etc.
It took me 10 years to pay off my student loans - and even though some of that time towards the end I was married, I made sure it was ME who paid off that debt, it wasn't my husband's to help me with. Same with the last new car I got not long before we were engaged.

Weddings - ah, everyone can afford to get married - cost of a marriage license and an officiant. However, not everyone is going to want/get the fairytale event. You plan to have what you can afford to host for your guests. It's simply a choice - as with everything else.
I was 28 when we got married - and we wanted a big family and friends traditional wedding, paid for it ourselves - no honeymoon, we simply wanted to start our lives together as a married couple, since we hadn't shacked up.
We've been to backyard weddings, we've been to grand affairs - all have been wonderful.

Saving for retirement/pensions - that's been the same through the decades past, as well. Some careers, businesses, etc. have good pension plans, most don't. My dad was in education for 38 years and had a fab pension plan (however, he only lived less than a decade after he retired).
However, that pension plan was not the same by the time I became a teacher...

The present - we have a 21 year old son in the midst of starting his career path. He's done a year of post-secondary, and is working in his trade, but has three years of apprenticeship left for him. He's got a great future ahead of him, he's got a level head, and is very positive and practical (yay!).

[DianneS]

Natalka, I understand what you are saying about lifestyle choices and how life has changed. You and I are probably about the same age. However, I would point out that the cost of housing in many areas of the country has increased exponentially over the past 20 years. The price of our home has increased 300% since we bought it 19 years ago. Salaries certainly have not increased that amount, and the down-payment required would be daunting. No matter what lifestyle choices one makes, the percentage of income that goes toward a mortgage payment for even a modest home can be huge. I am concerned that home ownership will be tough for my kids-- one has just graduated from university with the other child is in second year. They are both hard-working, practical people who have put themselves through school while working part-time. Yes, lifestyles have changed but for those who live in many areas of this country home ownership is becoming just a dream. I find that unfortunate. Yes, people could choose to live in some of the cities you referenced where housing is definintely much less expensive.....but you don't want all of us moving there because the increased demand would just driving up the price of housing! LOL

[Minou]

Makes me want to save and invest money for my kids so we can surprise them with some extra down payment money just before they sign mortgage papers for their first homes!

[torontogal12]

Thanks Granger, Shirl57 and Natalka. I didn't mean to post that Globe and Mail article to say that absolutely my generation has it worse off than anyone else. Because you know, it could be a lot worse. We could be living in the dark ages, or in poverty (and I am so thankful for what I have every day, and I don't think home ownership is the be all and end all in life).

I just really hate that "entitled" argument so much that I had to share the article. Entitled people are entitled because of their personality, not their age.

Thanks for your insight in your posts. It is safe to say that every generation has it rough in different ways. Just gotta keep on truckin and be smart and we can live happy lives! Now hopefully we can put this argument to bed on SC. I think it is the third time I've seen it in recent months

[***Kimura***]

Last I heard on the news it was seniors who were spending beyond their means and declaring bankruptcy, while young Canadians were able to keep new borrowing to a minimum.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...s-debt-td.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/05...n_3222984.html
http://www.carp.ca/2013/04/05/senior...advocate-says/

Like it has been mentioned before, you can't stick all young and old people in the same group.

[Natalka]

Natalka, I understand what you are saying about lifestyle choices and how life has changed. You and I are probably about the same age. However, I would point out that the cost of housing in many areas of the country has increased exponentially over the past 20 years. The price of our home has increased 300% since we bought it 19 years ago. Salaries certainly have not increased that amount, and the down-payment required would be daunting. No matter what lifestyle choices one makes, the percentage of income that goes toward a mortgage payment for even a modest home can be huge. I am concerned that home ownership will be tough for my kids-- one has just graduated from university with the other child is in second year. They are both hard-working, practical people who have put themselves through school while working part-time. Yes, lifestyles have changed but for those who live in many areas of this country home ownership is becoming just a dream. I find that unfortunate. Yes, people could choose to live in some of the cities you referenced where housing is definintely much less expensive.....but you don't want all of us moving there because the increased demand would just driving up the price of housing! LOL

I wonder how many 20-somethings are looking at true 'starter' homes, rather than those just like the homes they grew up in! That's definitely a factor I see. Parents in at least the past generation and before worked hard and saved over decades to upgrade to get larger homes, better neighbourhoods, etc. - and I do think many in this current generation want to start with a 2,500 sq ft home with all the latest and greatest...

Dianne, hat's very true about housing costs - here in Saskatoon, the housing market has gone through the roof. The economy in the city and in the province have been in a steady boom. No sign of a bust...

Report from Feb, 2013 -- about Saskatoon
A new report from Re/Max says average residential prices in the city appreciated by over 165 per cent between 2002 and 2012, the second highest increase in the country.
Prices rose from $118,999 to $315,834.


The Canadian average over the same period was 93 per cent.

According to CMHC, the average residential price is expected to increase to $322,000 this year.

... and that's 'average' prices.

[erin9mmm]

....I just really hate that "entitled" argument so much that I had to share the article. Entitled people are entitled because of their personality, not their age....

I agree with that.

On the flip side of this thread - I have always felt that there is a stigma attached to anyone who is renting, especially past their 20's. I have felt that my whole life (couldn't even watch Home Hardware commercials because of their motto "home owners helping home owners" lol). My husband and I are just now moving into our first home (with help mind you), and we are 41. We are both hard working people but throughout the last decade we have had hardships - people owing money to my dh's business, my job being unfairly taken away during my mat-leave (which I dealt with mind you). During all this we knew we weren't getting any younger and we wanted our family so despite the tight purse strings we had our children knowing full well that it would mean making hard choices and sacrifices. We don't regret a thing. Renting was not our choice but a necessity. Every time we would get some sort of down payment something would happen and we needed to use it. What I wouldn't give to have even the smallest home to call our own - so yes I noticed the sense of entitlement with some people (any age). I guess part of that could be the bitterness in myself for not being able to get out of our rut but looks of pity and in some cases being a 2nd class citizen from various people throughout the years was definitely not in my head. Part of that stigma also has to do with location because I realize in many parts of the world home ownership is a privilege that only very few can afford.

[torontogal12]

I know I said I'd leave this subject alone now, but this link appeared on my screen this morning so I thought I'd share it http://www.buzzfeed.com/hunterschwar...ge-all-millenn

Now that we can all have a laugh, I truly hope ageism will end.

[xox2010]

Nat, I totally agree with you Re: houses. Where I live though ( Ottawa) even the unfinished, unupdated small bungalows are selling for $300k. It's crazy. I feel like the market has to go bust though soon.

[Midnightly]

Nat, I totally agree with you Re: houses. Where I live though ( Ottawa) even the unfinished, unupdated small bungalows are selling for $300k. It's crazy. I feel like the market has to go bust though soon.

i know the feeling.. you can't get into a move in ready house(as in not falling apart around you in need of major renovations) for under 400K in my area (we would have a multi hour commute to find "affordable" ), rents are high.. MIGHT get lucky to find a nice 2-3 bedroom townhouse in the 300k range, once you consider a minimum down payment it's makes it hard to enter the market (even a 2 bedroom condo your looking at 200K) not all places are affordable.. and sometimes you need to live in a city.. my inlaws bought a house a few yrs ago for what some people might pay for a car (something like 40K but it's in an area that doesn't even have a grocery store or get mail delivered to the door they have to drive 15 min to a mailbox) i'd never be able to do that

[DianneS]

I wonder how many 20-somethings are looking at true 'starter' homes, rather than those just like the homes they grew up in! That's definitely a factor I see. Parents in at least the past generation and before worked hard and saved over decades to upgrade to get larger homes, better neighbourhoods, etc. - and I do think many in this current generation want to start with a 2,500 sq ft home with all the latest and greatest...

Dianne, hat's very true about housing costs - here in Saskatoon, the housing market has gone through the roof. The economy in the city and in the province have been in a steady boom. No sign of a bust...

Report from Feb, 2013 -- about Saskatoon
A new report from Re/Max says average residential prices in the city appreciated by over 165 per cent between 2002 and 2012, the second highest increase in the country.
Prices rose from $118,999 to $315,834.


The Canadian average over the same period was 93 per cent.

According to CMHC, the average residential price is expected to increase to $322,000 this year.

... and that's 'average' prices.

$322,000 wouldn't even buy a shack in Vancouver....just sayin' that young families now have a much tougher time getting into the housing market for a home of any size. Our home which is one hour away from the city is close to double that price.

[shirl57]

I agree with that.

On the flip side of this thread - I have always felt that there is a stigma attached to anyone who is renting, especially past their 20's. I have felt that my whole life (couldn't even watch Home Hardware commercials because of their motto "home owners helping home owners" lol). My husband and I are just now moving into our first home (with help mind you), and we are 41. We are both hard working people but throughout the last decade we have had hardships - people owing money to my dh's business, my job being unfairly taken away during my mat-leave (which I dealt with mind you). During all this we knew we weren't getting any younger and we wanted our family so despite the tight purse strings we had our children knowing full well that it would mean making hard choices and sacrifices. We don't regret a thing. Renting was not our choice but a necessity. Every time we would get some sort of down payment something would happen and we needed to use it. What I wouldn't give to have even the smallest home to call our own - so yes I noticed the sense of entitlement with some people (any age). I guess part of that could be the bitterness in myself for not being able to get out of our rut but looks of pity and in some cases being a 2nd class citizen from various people throughout the years was definitely not in my head. Part of that stigma also has to do with location because I realize in many parts of the world home ownership is a privilege that only very few can afford.

I've never heard of people being looked down upon if they are renting and if that is the case, I am sorry to hear that. One should never have to apologize for their method of housing. We all have our reasons, our situations, our incomes, everything is varied. Renting, owning, living with our family members, again, everyone has their reasons for how they choose their housing situation.

I hear your words as they are very similar to my situation all those years before I was finally able to fund for my first actual house. And I am glad for you though that all worked out in the end. Good luck in the future.