Ketogenic diet

Tara: I'm surprised no one has mentioned this already. I watched a documentary on this place and it seemed to produce viable results if you can ignore all the marketing. Might ?? be worth taking a look at http://www.hippocratesinst.org/

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Originally Posted by Tbites

Tara: I'm surprised no one has mentioned this already. I watched a documentary on this place and it seemed to produce viable results if you can ignore all the marketing. Might ?? be worth taking a look at http://www.hippocratesinst.org/

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I know a lot about them. They are hard-core raw vegans.

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Let me just start off by saying I'm not here to knock on anyone's beliefs.


I've been on cycling low-carb diet in the past for about 2 consecutive years for exercise purposes. By cycling I mean that every week I would load up on carbs for 24-36hours in order to replenish muscle glycogen. What I've observed....

- I barely experienced any fogginess during the "Induction" phase (roughly 2 weeks).... maybe I was just lucky :shrug:

- Due to the weekly "carb ups" my body wasn't in a permanent state of ketosis..... unlike the ketogenic diet.

- Every article I researched before starting this particular way of eating mentioned that maintaining the body in a permanent state of ketosis would lead to detrimental effects.

- I definitely felt lethargic when I ate complex carbs. But let's be honest... I'm a glutton at heart so many carb-up days were not really "clean" carbs.
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- I did have a lot more energy, part of that could also be attributed to an increase in training frequency.

- The most noticeable (and important difference for me at the time) was exercise performance. I would quickly crash when I used to have some complex carbs prior to training.... this perhaps MAY be due to the body still focusing energy on digestion.

- I have no experience with veganism other than the occasional yearly cleanse. I've found that those cleanses produce some light headedness but I attribute that to any sudden change in dietary intake.

- I definitely felt lighter... if that makes any sense. But coincidentally... I've experienced that same feeling near the end of a cleanse.

Sorry if this is off topic Tara, just had to add my two cents

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Originally Posted by lecale

But 4 oz steak (protein, fat, zero carbs) will not affect insulin levels,

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Exactly. That's my point.

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Originally Posted by lecale

Nope, pasta is a complex carb with a very low glycemic index, it is one of the best carbs to eat to PREVENT your blood sugar from spiking and falling (blood sugar peaks lower, slower and longer)

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You don't really believe that pasta will prevent your blood sugar from spiking and falling? How do you even come to that conclusion? Yes, pasta has a glycemic index around 55, and the recommendation is to eat foods with a GI 55 and under, but even though it's squeezing under the wire, it doesn't mean it's the equivalent than a vegetable at the lower end. On top of that, why aren't taking into the account the glycemic load, i.e. the number measuring how fast the carbs are absorbed into your blood stream and thus triggering an insulin spike? Pasta GL is around 24, when a dieter should air for foods with GL under 12.

Protein is important because it can lower the GI of a meal, but what I have been taught in eating school is that it is the carbs that affect mood and the brain. That's why you have to eat carbs at every meal.

And why is mood important on a diet? What's the relation?

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Originally Posted by lecale

Serotonin is a messaging chemical and you want to have lots of the stuff floating around between your brain cells. The serotonin is used to send messages between cells and the cells uptake and release the serotonin for this to happen. With depression a couple things can go wrong: you can not have enough free serotonin, or the the serotonin can be taken up by the cells and not released again. In the second case, antidepressants can be used to treat this problem. In the first case, food containing carbohydrates is the prescription. And of course the two approaches compliment each other. Serotonin is the key chemical involved in satiety and mood, which is why diet can be half the treatment for depression. If a person is low in serotonin because of a diet low in carbs, an antidepressant will not work at all because antidepressants prevent reuptake and if there is no serotonin there is nothing for the antidepressant to act on. Yeah, so, at this point break out the bag of chips though a pasta meal may be a better choice (much lower fat).

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How is this relevant to weight loss? Is the lack of serotonin pushing people to eat more? Is the serotonin contributing to reduce the sugars in the blood? I don't understand the connection you're trying to make. The link between the lack of serotonin and being overweight doesn't make any sense.

Do you not agree that when you eat, insulin is created to process the carbs in the blood? Do you not agree that, and since you're using the GI as an argument, if you eat a food with a high GI, the excess sugars in the blood will trigger a response from the brain that more insulin is required to take care of the excess sugars? But by the time the insulin has arrived, the sugars have already been absorbed in the blood stream. Since the insulin can't be send back to where it came from and needs to be used, another message to the brain is sent telling the body it needs to eat to clear away the excess insulin, thus making the body crave more food.

This is medical fact, ask your doctor. So, if someone is fat and continuing to eat carbs, and isn't losing weight, you automatically attribute it to the fact she's eating meat even though she's trapped in a cycle of high and low sugar and insulin.

Let me try to see how your theory would work. She eats carbs, triggers insulin in the blood to take care of excess carb at the same that serotonin goes to the brain, making her high and happy. Then what? The sugar did it's work on the brain and makes it happy, but the message received by the brain when the sugar arrived in stomach to deal with the sugar still makes the brain send insulin where it's required to deal with, because too much sugar in the blood kills you (another medical fact!). So by now, the insulin is still there needing to deal with sugar, so the brain tells the body to go ahead and eat some more. The brain is happy, but the cycle of high and low insuling is still going on regardless.

So, when in this cycle is the body supposed to start using it's fat stores? It's always loaded up on carbs.

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Originally Posted by lecale

They are in a state of chronic starvation, often on funky restrictive diets and big on limiting fat and carbohydrates. Lots of shabby hair, brittle nails, scaly skin on these people.

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And big on limiting meat and dairy.

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Originally Posted by lecale

Most antidepressants work primarily on serotonin. You need carbs to create serotonin biologically because serotonin does not cross the blood-brain barrier. So you just can't eat something that contains serotonin and affect your brain levels of the stuff, it must be biologically created in the brain. If you don't eat carbs the reaction that creates serotonin does not happen.

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And how is this related to losing weight?

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Originally Posted by lecale

Actually there is no shortage of tryptophan in all sorts of (even vegan) foods. Sesame, soybeans and seaweed are much higher in the stuff than turkey.

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I wasn't saying there was a shortage. If you're using tryptophan as a reason to be vegan, well, it's also available in animal products so not a valid argument.

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Originally Posted by lecale

Well 200g of carbs is about 800 kcal. Then you only need to eat another 1200 kcal to get to 2000 kcal a day. 40% of your calories would be carbs. It's not as if eating the carbs you need is going to put you on caloric overload.

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And what do you fill the other 1200 calorics with to reach the 2000 goal you need to reach your daily goal, fat and protein? And where are the other 60% coming from, again fat and protein?

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Originally Posted by lecale

Follow the Canada Food Guide and eat 6 servings a day (about 3 cups rice or pasta, or 4-6 tortillas, pieces of bread, etc.)

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I think people are doing a good job of following the food guide in Canada and in the US. That's why there's a major problem with obesity in the US and a rising problem in Canada. It's from eating the recommendated portions of bread, rice and potatoes.

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According to Atkins autopsy report he did have cardiac issues. He had myocardial infarction, congestive heart failure, hypertension and was obese...

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documen...s-death-report

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Originally Posted by patty smyth

anyhoo dr, atkins died of a heart attack, nuff said.

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Something's wonky with posting out of forum smileys

I think everyone that chimed on anything that is not related to Tara's OP should delete their posts because this thread has been highjacked and off topic and people won't let stuff go AGAIN.

Why is it that only vegetarian and vegan posts get slammed. Do you see that on the wieght watchers thread or any other diet thread no. Pisses me off. Do your research people and decide for yourself.

I am off to delete my posts.

This thread has had 52 posts and I agree with Patty ..*puts on mod hat* lets get back to the topic ....this is not a debate thread and those posting in which their comments have nothing to do with OP's Topic please stop posting !

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