Discuss New Rules for Package Trains & Win a Gift Card :)

[FallenPixels]

As I mentioned in my post above, one is even worried that members have her address if she posts what she PMed to me, given some of the bullying I know goes on in the forums, I am not one bit surprised given the harshness of some comments why they wont post publicly

I shared the complaint with Jezz, Boo and the other mods for feedback before we posted here, we do not make any other complaints public so why this one? So people can (as you just did) find a reason why her point is not valid because of the person. The person in question is a good trader with not one complaint but has never ridden a train because of the rules. But somehow it has already been decided that she is a bad rider? That is exactly why people are not posting in this thread

I have also received comments, not from people who feel they are outdone, but by people who have received a fairly crappy gift in return after they put thought into theirs, so although no limit trains don't have one, if you can't give what you are receiving, there is that notion of it not being good enough. While it may not be anything in the thread, riders talk and I have been told when doing trade mod stuff 'oh xyz told me she is cheap' when there is a trade issue

I actually had a VWT passenger once ask me to change someone else's feedback because person B said "thanks for the amazing coupons on xyz train" to person C but only "thanks for the coupons" to person A which she felt made her look like a bad trader, so what if the other person was extra generous, it doesn't mean you were a bad rider - but people do think like that and it does impact if people will trade with you etc

[PammieD]

What about this suggestion: make the necessary changes/new rules/etc for the upcoming trains...but for the next few trains or months or whatever, maybe at the end of each train, there is a short survey that each rider will fill out and send it back to the conductor/Jezebel/Fallen/whoever for feedback. Questions like "How did your experience on this train go?", "Did you have any concerns about how this train ran?" etc etc etc. That way every rider can comfortably and privately voice their concerns/feedback and maybe then, after a few months of feedback, can see if there's any more obvious changes that need to be made?

Anyways, just a suggestion

Me likey this suggestion. That's a non threatening/scary way to get feedback from everyone.

[coyote00]

Just my humble opinion but, I think we have now moved into territory that there may be no way back. Tempers are heated, feelings are hurt, this does not reflect what package trains are about or what SC promotes.

I know polls have been held before regarding these issues and perhaps it is a better solution. Polls do not leave room for interpretation or misinterpretation. How one person reads a comment can be vastly different than another.

[Peachykeen2007]

oh well that is their choice and it is silly, obviously they can't take this open discussion! If they will not visit SC because of this thread that was started by MODS and arose this whole thing than so be it, I will not feel as though I should keep quite, you guys posted this for open discussion and that is exactly what is happening - I am merely stating my opinion whether people want to agree with it or not that is their choice. We are all adults and in this person saying they are leaving SC is just childish

I am also pointing out the fact that limit train does not work for ALL!! and with limit trains come excluding those members, myself included from riding them plain and simple - so why should I not fight for that

if this member feels as though this site doesn't work together than why are we suggesting something that excludes the majority of its regulars

it is my choice whether I want to ride a limit train or not but from riding almost every one of them we have NEVER excluded ANYONE - our objective has always been to get new rider's hence all the changes last year that proved over and over they didn't work

As it happens, the person who lodged the complaint just contacted me saying she will no longer be visiting SC, she prefers to be a part of a site that will actually work together to what works for all - that is not something I giggle at

[FallenPixels]

The problem with a poll is last time we ran one certain members made new accounts to vote and push the poll the way they wanted, the only way we can stop that is making it public and people are already worried about the fallback of posting publicly

[K8's Fate]

I am so glad that you feel the need to giggle that someone has to come to the admins because their voice is not being heard

Jezz and I decided to discuss this on the forum because we did not want Boo to say the trains are not worth it and people do want change - but the harshness of some of the posts here mean the people who complained won't even speak up on the forum because of the cliqueyness (and there are cliques, we all know it) and past experiences getting on the wrong side of those cliques

Do you know there are members who won't post in this thread because they are worried about the backlash to the point that one said "they have my address"

We get complaints that there are kid trains so people can't join, we suggest having two different smaller trains running with different themes and someone else complains that they are excluded from the second one - we can't win. But I will not have members feel bullied to the point they will not even trade with members

It seems that the regulars like the way things run, and have set the rules the way they like, but there are unhappy people - and they could become regulars given a chance, but a lot of this harshness is scaring them away. It is not necessary to post 35 times, but you will probably find that they will actually post more if not forced to with the threat of being put on a consequence list for only hitting 34 when others (as peachy mentioned she did) get away with other rule breaking

As it happens, the person who lodged the complaint just contacted me saying she will no longer be visiting SC, she prefers to be a part of a site that will actually work together to what works for all - that is not something I giggle at

I don't consider myself part of a "clique" of pkg train riders, and I do feel comfortable expressing my opinion in this thread that Jez graciously started. If negative experiences have occured "by getting on the wrong side" of supposed "cliques," then shouldn't those "clique" members be banned?

Also as an educator, I really don't like when the term bullied is used in cases like this. I've seen first hand the effects of bullying (depression, addiction, cutting, attempting suicide, and death). I don't think the term bullying defines the differences in opinions on package trains. People on both sides may have strong opinions, and at times may state them harshly. In my opinion, this is still not bullying. I'm tired of this word being used, when other individuals are suffering to survive daily because of true bullying.

I personally dont feel like a clique exists. I've always felt included in ever train I've joined. Some riders know each other better than others, but that's expected. I personally don't get offended by others relationships that they've developed.

I've had great rides on the many pkg trains that I've been on, and things always seem to go very well because of the great effort of the conductors and Jez.

Many regular riders are unaware of complaints being pm'd about pkg trains. And would then find it odd that Boo may want to cancel them again. As admins, could there opinions be voiced by you if they're uncomfortable with posting in this thread? Then there opinions could be weighed equally with the opinions of others.

I know that I was initially turned off of a Mother's Day Train. My mother was killed in a car accident when I was a child. I asked if other trains were going to be run instead or at the same time. There wasn't going to be. The Mothers Day Train then changed to a Pampered Ladies Train and I was encouraged by many to join, and that they would support me through ths difficult time of the year. I joined (and was a bit quiter, then on other trains), but I made the post count, had a great time, and felt very supported.

[Peachykeen2007]

Why has this person not rode - which rules has this person not been able to ride? Why can't this information be shared with the rest of us? Who has said this person is a bad rider? I am confused here

. The person in question is a good trader with not one complaint but has never ridden a train because of the rules. But somehow it has already been decided that she is a bad rider?

[FallenPixels]

Not one person said every train would have a limit, but that a conductor could run a limit train - something several users have mentioned they would like (and postage would likely be cheaper as they would be smaller gifts etc)

I am not asking you to be quiet, just to see how people are not willing to post here when you are so harsh in the way you put your opinion forward - especially while you are the train helper they would have to approach if there was an issue which is intimidating to people not as outspoken as others.

[FallenPixels]

Without giving the reasons this person can't/won't join which would identify them, no I can't give the reasons

As it happens, Jezz changed the rule for the current train back down to 10 posts (which the person could meet but by then it was too late to join)

[FallenPixels]

Who are these people, I know of a few of them and honestly they deserve to not be allowed to ride - the ones I know of have fallen under these categories

1. someone not sending a package but received one should be banned
2. someone who sends liquids in their package and they break and the rider not replacing these items even though they got FULL money back from CP should not be able to ride

This is what I was talking about - you say you know a few of them when none of them want to post, but you have decided they are bad riders (or that is what it seems like from your post)

I completely agree that someone not sending a package should be banned (and I have even trade banned people who did not despite it not being a rule) but as far as I know, the people who did both of these are banned from riding package trains and are not the people complaining

[K8's Fate]

Also as an educator, I really don't like when the term bullied is used in cases like this. I've seen first hand the effects of bullying (depression, addiction, cutting, attempting suicide, and death). I don't think the term bullying defines the differences in opinions on package trains. People on both sides may have strong opinions, and at times may state them harshly. In my opinion, this is still not bullying. I'm tired of this word being used, when other individuals are suffering to survive daily because of true bullying.

Since I've been told that "there are REAL instances of bullying going on," should those members not be banned, as it goes agaisnt the rules of SC?

I am still unaware of bullying occurring.

[FallenPixels]

The one I know of is no longer on the forum, bullying is very rarely public and as I am sure you are aware, we rarely know about it until it is too late to fix an issue (not that I think anyone is committing suicide because of SC but that is not to say that lesser bullying should be let go because it is not as extreme)

[Peachykeen2007]

If this is directed to me I will not be quiet and if that results in a ban from this site so be it. You guys opened this discussion and if you feel as though I am being harsh that is your interpretation of what I am saying. I think what you/BHL/sheets have said have been harsh to me and you all are ganging up on me because I am speaking up. Is this not what you guys wanted??? I am not running to the corner with what is said here.

All I am trying to do is understand how these members feel as though why a limit train would be any different than a no limit train, postage is determined by what you send not by how many riders there are or how much money that person spent. I have personally sent a package that had several gifts in it and the postage was $14 and that went several provinces over


What I am more interested in is when these limit trains are going to be imposed and what is the actions when these limit trains do not get the required rider's - it will be interesting to see what the actions will be when once again this doesn't work

I will not respond again in this thread, not because you or anyone else is attacking me which is my interpretation of what you wrote, but because this is ridiculous and childish - you asked for a open discussion and knew full well this would happen so you can't be upset that some of us will defend to the end what we believe and what we love on SC

I am sadden that this has to come to this and especially sadden that all the wonderful people I have made friends with and learned a little bit more about threw these packages will come to a end [


QUOTE=FallenPixels;5447505]Not one person said every train would have a limit, but that a conductor could run a limit train - something several users have mentioned they would like (and postage would likely be cheaper as they would be smaller gifts etc)

I am not asking you to be quiet, just to see how people are not willing to post here when you are so harsh in the way you put your opinion forward - especially while you are the train helper they would have to approach if there was an issue which is intimidating to people not as outspoken as others.[/QUOTE]

[Granger]

Perhaps the question we need to ask now is what needs to been done to make things right for the people involved who have been hurt? I feel fairly non-partisan and have watched this friendly thread change tones. Is there enough info to revise the rules and see how it goes? Fromm viewpoint the rule changes seemed to make it so there was something for everyone's preference and always the option to decline. There will always be problems here and there but ppl willing to help. For e.g. I told Holly if a package was not sent for the Xmas exchange she could call on me.

[nat77]

Hello! My name is Natalie and I am addicted to package trains! ((I'm so sorry I couldn't join Chesterjes' Pampered fella's train--but I couldn't create a list with more than 4 or 5 items for my man without adding things like bubble bath or mascara.... DH would NOT have been impressed with that sort of package ))

Anyway, I love the fact that Jez took the initiative to start this thread... HOWEVER, I think it's getting a little out of hand. There's a kazillion SC'ers on this site and we're never, ever, ever going to agree on the perfect way to conduct a package train.

I think the best way to accommodate everyone is to just have a variety of package trains. Let's say Peachy likes larger, no-limit-type trains... then she would host one like that. Then another month, a different conductor would host a 12-person, $15-limit train.... or even during the same month.

If you haven't seen the type of train you would like to join posted, then volunteer to conduct one---it's not so bad, really, I only broke down and cried twice during the last one.

I actually think it would be great to join a variety of different package trains and have different challenges to come up with the perfect package for my buddy each time---it makes it more interesting.