Canada Post Workers Locked Out - No Mail Delivery

[Midnightly]

like MercuryBlue has said.. i have nothing against people without college/university education earning a healthy wage (heck i'm all for being able to get decent job without having to put in 4+ years of book education) i'm fine with canada post having higher wages IF they worked to get to the higher wages, they put in their time and built up to that wage not started with that type of wage.. putting in the time to work your way up the wage totem pole so to speak.. start at the suggested 18hr(it's 18 right?) then every 6 months to a year your wage increases

[ConcreteHole]

That's actually a really great idea. Thank you for that - that had completely gone over my head!

Perhaps you could ask for raincheques from the shops and go buy them after the strike has finished and your coupons have arrived?

[uniquelyme]

To reiterate:

a common phrase intended to refer to a simple, menial task that requires little or no formal education, reasoning or decisive skills. I didn't call anyone a monkey.

I apologize if anyone found this description offensive - but it was just that... a description of the JOB. Not of the people doing it. (For the record, I apply this description to vast array of jobs out there. Including most politicians I know. )There are over-qualified people everywhere performing menial jobs that are far below their capabilities. And generally compensation is commensurate with the skill level required. Not so in certain government jobs, certain unionized jobs, etc. etc. In the real world, (or private sector) these jobs are usually less-paid because they require less specialized training. Compared to say a welder or other tradesperson who has to have special knowledge or experience. Or to medical professionals (a lot of whom make less than entry level posties it seems) who hold so much responsibility over one's health and life. This current argument is why Toronto is looking to contract out garbage collection - to reduce costs through reducing salaries of city employees who are earning amazing amounts for a job that requires very little in the way of training or education.

And an education is a great thing -- but it's irrelevant if you choose not to use it, or can't find a job within your trained profession. The less educated certainly aren't lesser persons -- but jobs that require less education or skill or experience shouldn't be paying more than those that do. I do consider that unjust. But it's also a fact of life, particularly in government positions moreso than the private sector. And while unions do good, and exist for a good reason, they also provide job security to people that don't deserve it. I've seen people get away with a vast array of things - from general laziness and apathy, to outright fraud and theft - because their employment was protected by their union. That's unfair to everyone, especially others who share the same union protection, because it casts a negative light.

This is the way I feel. It's an opinion. You may disagree with it, but we'll have to agree to disagree. Conversely, I listen to people complain about TTC employees who earn wages comparable to those being discussed here. That's a job with far more danger, IMO. And one that requires far more skill, IMO. I certainly wouldn't want to think about the fact that the driver responsible for the 50+ lives on his bus, or hundreds of lives on a subway train, is undervalued, underpaid and disgruntled with his employer. There's been a lot of press around those issues lately as well, and will be when the contract comes up for renewal again.

Once again, I'm sorry if anyone took real offense to any comment I made, or actually thought I was personalizing it or directing it at THEM. But, when quesitoning mod decisions (and mods are mods for a reason - generally because they make good decisions, whether we agree with them or not) look at the posts that were moderated and ask yourself "was this person responding to a generalization or expression of discontent with a personal attack?" -- because they probably were. And flowblue, I get why you're coming to defense of (your mother I believe?) but calling out others whose comments, presumably, were assessed by a moderator who decided they weren't offensive and demanding some sort of equal punishment isn't necessarily the way to go about defending her. IMO.

As for news? In between the mass coverage of the Vancouver riots on the news tonight, I did hear that back-to-work legislation is expected to be passed in the next 48 hours. So it seems hopeful that mail service will resume by next Monday. That would be nice - not to have this dragged out.

[PrairieBargainista]

miss_brittany has been banned for 24 hours.

I don't mind a debate, but there are respectful ways to debate. That chance has sailed though - keep this thread to the facts only from now on.

I for one would like to see people being warned BY A MOD before being banned. Just seems like a fair thing to do. If you have been warned before (like on another thread) then maybe you should be banned without a warning.

Also, here are some facts about this strike:

Union wants:

- Increased job security

- Changes to work methods to promote more safety

- To maintain current sick-leave provision, which allow workers to accumulate sick time so it can be used if they become seriously ill

- A reduction in forced overtime to address staffing issues

- No reduction in starting wage for new hires, which currently stands at $23 per hour


Canada Post has proposed (for future employees):

- A starting wage of $19 an hour that rises to $26 an hour over seven years

- Comprehensive health benefits for employees and retirees

- Up to six weeks vacation

- A fully indexed defined-benefit pension by age 60


- The same short-term disability program available to all other employees

- A sick-leave system that would give sick employees 70 per cent of their wages until they are eligible for long-term disability


Canada Post has proposed (for current employees):

- Annual wage increases that will bring the top wage to $26 per hour

- Continued job security

- No changes to a fully indexed defined-benefit pension plan

- Comprehensive health benefits for employees and retirees

- Up to seven weeks of vacation leave annually

- The same short-term disability program available to all other employees

- Employees with banked sick time under the old system would be able to use those credits to top up their 70 per cent income to 100 per cent

source: http://www.canada.com/business/Going...387/story.html

[Junius]

I was listening to a show on CBC radio on Sunday and a CP employee was commenting on the possible privatization of CP. He made an interesting point that if CP was more focused on making money than on being an essential service there would be significant losses. He pointed to the fact that many rural post offices are not profitable and could be closed because of this. I don't know what counts as rural but on the northern half of Vancouver Island you have a population spread out over a wide area that is not near an urban centre. Loss of CP would be very hard on those communities. Many don't have high speed internet and some still don't have cell service.
I see CP as an essential service not a perk. I don't know where I stand on their "demands" but I don't get the impression from the other sources I have heard or read that they are being greedy or unreasonable. This link talks about privatization of CP. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/canada-
post-labour-dispute-renews-calls-privatization-crown-213715410.html

"Historically, the primary argument against privatizing has always been the concern rural dwellers would likely see rate hikes, more post office closures and poor service.
But with email, on-line banking and potentially more competition on the way, maybe Canada Post is not as relevant as it once was."


IMHO I don't think it plays the same part that it once did but it is still very important.

[t4tintin]

Also, here are some facts about this strike:

Union wants:

- Increased job security

- Changes to work methods to promote more safety

- To maintain current sick-leave provision, which allow workers to accumulate sick time so it can be used if they become seriously ill

- A reduction in forced overtime to address staffing issues

- No reduction in starting wage for new hires, which currently stands at $23 per hour


Canada Post has proposed (for future employees):

- A starting wage of $19 an hour that rises to $26 an hour over seven years

- Comprehensive health benefits for employees and retirees

- Up to six weeks vacation

- A fully indexed defined-benefit pension by age 60


- The same short-term disability program available to all other employees

- A sick-leave system that would give sick employees 70 per cent of their wages until they are eligible for long-term disability


Canada Post has proposed (for current employees):

- Annual wage increases that will bring the top wage to $26 per hour

- Continued job security

- No changes to a fully indexed defined-benefit pension plan

- Comprehensive health benefits for employees and retirees

- Up to seven weeks of vacation leave annually

- The same short-term disability program available to all other employees

- Employees with banked sick time under the old system would be able to use those credits to top up their 70 per cent income to 100 per cent

source: http://www.canada.com/business/Going...387/story.html

New hires get 6 weeks of annual vacation? Wow! CUPW is still not satisfied?

[Midnightly]

He pointed to the fact that many rural post offices are not profitable and could be closed because of this. I don't know what counts as rural but on the northern half of Vancouver Island you have a population spread out over a wide area that is not near an urban centre. Loss of CP would be very hard on those communities. Many don't have high speed internet and some still don't have cell service.
I see CP as an essential service not a perk. I don't know where I stand on their "demands" but I don't get the impression from the other sources I have heard or read that they are being greedy or unreasonable. This link talks about privatization of CP. http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/canada-politics/canada-
post-labour-dispute-renews-calls-privatization-crown-213715410.html

"Historically, the primary argument against privatizing has always been the concern rural dwellers would likely see rate hikes, more post office closures and poor service.
But with email, on-line banking and potentially more competition on the way, maybe Canada Post is not as relevant as it once was."


IMHO I don't think it plays the same part that it once did but it is still very important.

i'd also worry about privatization and the smaller more rural areas, my parents live up in northern BC, the upper half of BC is just small towns with small populations.. they already have to pay a premium with some companies to get deliveries (sears comes to mind, my parents bought a dishwasher at sears they have to pay a "rural delivery fee" even if they pick it up from the local sears location), should rural canada have to worry about being able to get/send such a simple thing as mail?

[flowblue]

New hires get 6 weeks of annual vacation? Wow! CUPW is still not satisfied?

No they don't.

New hires get nothing.

They are proposing that instead of a maximum of 7 weeks vacation after X amount of years working at Canada Post, it will be 6.

New hires work part-time, on-call for 2 to 4, or maybe even more years until they are "permanent". They receive no benefits, no guaranteed hours, and no pensionsable hours at this time. It is only after these many years, that they will begin to receive their benefits, sick days, etc., and I believe they start with 3 weeks vacation with an extra week added after every 7 years of service - although I may be wrong, so someone correct me if that is the case...

[flowblue]

And flowblue, I get why you're coming to defense of (your mother I believe?) but calling out others whose comments, presumably, were assessed by a moderator who decided they weren't offensive and demanding some sort of equal punishment isn't necessarily the way to go about defending her. IMO.

Just comparing apples to apples. That is, if this forum is supposed to be moderated in an equally fair manner for each member.

[uniquelyme]

Law mandates that ALL employees, part time or full time, get two weeks paid vacation annually, or 4% paid in lieu of time off. So if a part-time employee is not taking vacation, they are getting it paid out instead - either annually, twice yearly or added on to each pay.

I've known people who were hired for full-time employment at Canada Post and worked just that - full time - from the date of hire. It was my understanding though that job postings for full-time positions are filled from within typically. So part-time, temporary or seasonal employees are considered for those jobs first before hiring outside the company. The same is pretty typical for most unionized employers -- positions are posted internally and outside candidates don't get a chance until all potential internal candidates apply and are interviewed for the position.

Benefit packages are generally reserved for full-time employees, though some employers offer packages to part-time employees for a premium (so long as they meet the minimum hours worked requirement to qualify.) I've been on the end of everything -- full time, part-time and casual. You prove yourself to an employer when you're hired as a casual employee. They can gauge how responsible and ambitious you are based on how many shifts you're available for, how you perform in those shifts etc.

Just comparing apples to apples. That is, if this forum is supposed to be moderated in an equally fair manner for each member.

I think the point of moderation is that they are impartial parties who do moderate in a fair manner based on the complaints they receive or the posts that they read. If they were partial to any participant of the thread, they'd let another impartial moderator take care of the task. In my experience, that's how forums work and continue to function. Consider them peace officers in an online community -- when two people have a fight in the street, both have their own view of who started it / who was justified in their actions -- and they usually differ greatly. It's up to police officers to decide who gets charged. And they're questioned all the time by those they decide to take action against.

Same deal here, less tasering and pepper spray. (I hope. :D)

ETA: The Toronto Star -- Ottawa gives notice legislation to end postal strike is imminent

Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s government gave notice mid-afternoon that it would table legislation Wednesday night to ensure “the mail is delivered,” according to Labour Minister Lisa Raitt.
In the Commons, Harper was unapologetic about moving on the two fronts – with back-to-work legislation against striking Air Canada workers, and with as yet-unseen legislation to make sure postal services continue, saying the government would act to ensure all other sectors of the Canadian economy are protected.
In the case of both Air Canada and Canada Post, Harper told the Commons, the two parties were unable to reach a settlement, “threatening to jeopardize economic recovery.”
The government had been reluctant to get involved in the postal dispute, which had seen rotating strikes and mail service scaled back to three days a week.
On Tuesday, Raitt put Air Canada and its striking workers on formal notice that they could face back-to-work legislation unless they settle their dispute quickly.
At the time, Raitt said similar action wasn’t needed for Canada Post since postal service was continuing, though with some disruptions.
“We now have a lock-out so there is a cessation of mail delivery. That’s different than the rolling strikes, that’s different than cutting back on mail service,” she said.
...

cont'd at http://www.thestar.com/business/comp...ke-is-imminent

[Sally888]

no further comments from me, good night all !

Oh Mia how I agree with you. I have 0 response to the post above yours as well.

On that note no more arguing please.

If you'd like to express your opinions further feel free to post them on the blog where more debate is generally tolerated.

http://smartcanucks.ca/canada-post-f...ns-nationwide/

[t4tintin]

If you'd like to express your opinions further feel free to post them on the blog where more debate is generally tolerated.

http://smartcanucks.ca/canada-post-f...ns-nationwide/

I tried to post on the blog (same topic), no censored/inappropriate words or anything (pretty much the same words I posted in this thread), but my posts never got published on the blog. Tried three times.

[kimreimer]

Ive noticed a few people talking about missing their government cheques.

The following will be delivered on June 20th:
Canada Pension Plan
Old Age Security
Veterans Affairs Pension Plan
Canada Child Tax Benefit

Hopefully these are the kinds of cheques that were in question. I know I was relieved to see that I'll get my Child Tax cheque.
http://www.canadapost.ca/cheques

[mellyskater]

i wish i worked for CP

[Ceren]

i wish i worked for CP

+1 me too