Serious Coupon Concerns

[ashokia]

I actually came on today to ask for some coupon 'wording clarification' & a few other questions having just recently starting to coupon. I think I'll skip the stacking questions for now as I have to admit - I really still don't get it. :S
I've read through this thread & the other posted by the first person on this one. I've gathered that living 'out west' we are able to stack while those 'down east & especially Quebec' seem to be restricted in this area. I've never stacked because I don't know how to do it. Everytime I read a coupon I'm even more confused - 'How on earth can this be stackable when it says it can't be combined with any other....so on and so forth.'
I would like to ask this - Is EVERY coupon that is ordered from P&G, save.ca, webasaver.ca, gocoupons & LivingWell - considered a MFG cpn even though that little box that says 'Manufacturer Coupon' does NOT always appear???

Yes, coupons from save.ca/gocoupons.ca/websaver.ca/P&G are all manufacturer's coupons. Coupons from Smartsource.ca and Livingwell.ca are Internet Coupons (or printables). Coupons from inserts and tearpads are also manufacturer's coupons.

I'm gathering that recently stacking has become a lot harder, because of all the restrictive wording on the coupons. However, if you do want to learn, I would suggust posting a thread on your local board and ask to be adopted by a senior member. Usually you'll find someone who is more than willing to help you out and I know some adopters have even taken their newbies on shopping trips when they are geographically close enough to one another.

Even when you're not a stacker, the wording can sometimes confusing. Like the example you gave of, "cannot be combined with any other offers, specials or promotions". Even I'm not sure if that means you can't use it on a sale item or not.

[DianneS]

In referencing the first post, which is linked to another thread that does have a lot of negativity, I am merely trying to convey that people should look on the bright side. Maybe I do not seem sympathetic enough over the fact that a few people are not going to get their nine boxes of Finish for free (thank heavens they have ten squirrelled away). Obviously there are some people who do not realize how lucky they are, else they would not be so vocally complaining about the fact that the company is no longer willing to give thousands of dollars worth of product away for free.

I'm not the coupon police. If people can get a good deal, I'm generally happy for them. Do I feel a tiny wee bit of resentment towards people who can stack, well of course I do! I'd be crazy if I didn't! Do I complain and moan that unlike Jenny from the Rock (who is my idol) I can't get free diapers and formula? Nope. I say, WOW, THAT'S AMAZING, YOU ARE SO LUCKY YOU CAN STACK. And does she jump down my throat and say, "I know I'm lucky, you don't have to tell me that." Nope. Not once.

I'm sorry that a few of these new 'extreme' couponers are ruining it for the people who have been stacking for years and years and doing so in an ethical manner. It is really terrible that a few bad apples have spoiled the bunch. Hopefully it stops with the Finish and Scrubbing Bubbles and I'll continue to be able to look at those stacking brags and say, "THAT'S SO AMAZING! YOU'RE SO LUCKY YOU CAN STACK!"

I think we should be careful not turn this thread in yet another negative direction and blame "new" extreme couponers for what's happening.

As far as brags about "amazing" amounts of free or almost free product....I personally don't care for them, won't read them and think that they hurt all couponers whether they have stacked for the product or not. I believe that as far as manufacturers' go, this is like couponers waving a red in front of a bull.

People from all over the country have varying sizes of stockpiles. Not all of them were built by stacking....and many of them took a long time to build whether people stacked or not.

I believe that couponers need to behave ethically and responsibly. I also believe retailers have a part to play in this picture. Why are they allowing people to stack for 40 bottles of Dove, or haul 50 boxes of Ziploc out of their stores? Yes, it helps their sales in the short term but we are seeing that it hurts them in the long run. If they want to be able to continue to drive sales with couponing, why not put a limit on items? If couponers and retailers would use their common sense it would go a long way.

[ashokia]

I think we should be careful not turn this thread in yet another negative direction and blame "new" extreme couponers for what's happening.

As far as brags about "amazing" amounts of free or almost free product....I personally don't care for them, won't read them and think that they hurt all couponers whether they have stacked for the product or not. I believe that as far as manufacturers' go, this is like couponers waving a red in front of a bull.

People from all over the country have varying sizes of stockpiles. Not all of them were built by stacking....and many of them took a long time to build whether people stacked or not.

I believe that couponers need to behave ethically and responsibly. I also believe retailers have a part to play in this picture. Why are they allowing people to stack for 40 bottles of Dove, or haul 50 boxes of Ziploc out of their stores? Yes, it helps their sales in the short term but we are seeing that it hurts them in the long run. If they want to be able to continue to drive sales with couponing, why not put a limit on items? If couponers and retailers would use their common sense it would go a long way.

The reason I enjoy Jennyfromtherock's brags aren't because she brags about 40 bottles of Dove. In one brag, she showed off all of the formula she had stockpiled for her coming baby during multiple shopping trips and in another she did the same with diapers. Being a new mommy myself and knowing how expensive all this is, it is AMAZING to me that she got it all free.

I do agree with you that there should be a limit put on things. I know some people are ordering ahead of time and that ensures other people get some too, but I don't think they are looking at the bigger picture. Companies need to make money. If they are losing too much money in one place, they will cut back in another. I'd much rather see 40 people get 1 bottle of free or almost free Dove than one person get 40. This at least shows the company that their coupons are doing what they are supposed to do - bringing in new customers.

[Brynhilde]

To the people who are complaining about ONE ITEM becoming non stackable, I say, suck it up. Most of us can't stack at all. Geez. Wait for a sale and combine it with the best coupon you can find like the rest of us have to.

I agree. I haven't come across a coupon yet where I could stack in Ontario!! As much as I want to save a lot of money, I find simple happiness in just using one coupon to save a buck here or there.

When others stack (which is great if you can do it), they often hoard coupons that others could use.. that's my problem with stacking is the greed. Here in ON, I don't see a lot of stacking but I see a lot of people taking 10 of the same coupon because they think they can stack

[Brynhilde]

I think we should be careful not turn this thread in yet another negative direction and blame "new" extreme couponers for what's happening.

As far as brags about "amazing" amounts of free or almost free product....I personally don't care for them, won't read them and think that they hurt all couponers whether they have stacked for the product or not. I believe that as far as manufacturers' go, this is like couponers waving a red in front of a bull.

People from all over the country have varying sizes of stockpiles. Not all of them were built by stacking....and many of them took a long time to build whether people stacked or not.

I believe that couponers need to behave ethically and responsibly. I also believe retailers have a part to play in this picture. Why are they allowing people to stack for 40 bottles of Dove, or haul 50 boxes of Ziploc out of their stores? Yes, it helps their sales in the short term but we are seeing that it hurts them in the long run. If they want to be able to continue to drive sales with couponing, why not put a limit on items? If couponers and retailers would use their common sense it would go a long way.

The retailers pay for it in the end anyway. They may have high sales for the month being, however, when it comes to getting reimbursed for the coupons, the manufacturer will see that the amount of sales of one particular item does not match the amount of coupons being redeemed. That is if someone is using a coupon that says one per customer/purchase and lets say an employee doesn't pay attention..

[DianneS]

My feeling is that the stacking issue won't be around much longer. With weekly reports of rules tightening on various products I won't be surprised if we see it draw its last dying breaths over the next few months. I don't know, though, if I agree that stackers 'hoard' coupons. I find that I hang onto coupons that I think will bring me a good deal regardless of whether I can stack them. For example, Newman's pasta sauce coupons. I was able to get 8 bottles of it for $1 each (no stacking) each by hanging on to that coupon for 8 months. I know some people -- from all across the country --hauled cases of pasta sauce out of stores but buying 8 jars in one shopping trip was a lot for me. I really don't like to get more than 4-6 of an item at once as a general rule.

[hopesdreams]

I agree that we are lucky to stack here in BC. It is a lot of work.
Us stackers have to read each and every word on coupons & policies, be organized, be brave at the service desks and do lots of trades.
Yes we stack mostly at london drugs. I am sure most of us share our stacking with friends and family. This is a round about way of giving London drugs good free advertisement. Do you have any idea what advertisement cost these stores. My brother worked for a few major stores with their advertisement departments. Big bucks are spent.
Therefore I do not feel bad about saving with stacking coupons and sharing this with others. In return I also purchase other bigger items from them when needed for our home.
Stacking coming to a end would make me sad. We all love a good deal! I will cherrish the great memories of being able to afford the basic's of life. Like my favorite brand of at home hair colouring.
There is always going to be people that complain about lack of things in life. People just need to let off steam at times. So I read the comment and hope they have a better day.

[DianneS]

The retailers pay for it in the end anyway. They may have high sales for the month being, however, when it comes to getting reimbursed for the coupons, the manufacturer will see that the amount of sales of one particular item does not match the amount of coupons being redeemed. That is if someone is using a coupon that says one per customer/purchase and lets say an employee doesn't pay attention..

Actually, Brynhilde, the reason stacking worked for so long is that coupon redemption is based on the amount of product sold over a three month period. So, if 100 customers came in and bought Dove and didn't use a coupon, but 20 came in and used 2 coupons each, the retailer could demonstrate that they had sold enough product to cover the coupons they were submitting. Now that stacking has become so popular, the equation is not working. My London Drugs told me that they used to have a few stackers a week. At the height of stacking -- when we could stack P&G -- they were multiples of that number every day. You need the number of non-coupon users to outweigh the couponers and that is not happening any more....

[Brynhilde]

I think anyone who coupons whether they stack or not could possible hoard coupons but it seems to be more likely for those who stack coupons IMO. Someone may like a product and keep 4-6 coupons at a time for said product (like yourself) but there are others out there who will take the entire tearpad at a Supermarket

I am glad we cannot do stacking here.. makes the game fairer for everyone and it keeps the coupons coming over the years because manufacturers/retailers will continue to see increased revenue. Even if it costs the company an extra $1.. a lot of people don't know that even at places like Walmart, they may have a rollback or sale, yet the item's markup is still in the high 70-90%

[DianneS]

[QUOTE=Brynhilde;4225395]I think anyone who coupons whether they stack or not could possible hoard coupons but it seems to be more likely for those who stack coupons IMO. Someone may like a product and keep 4-6 coupons at a time for said product (like yourself) but there are others out there who will take the entire tearpad at a Supermarket


Some of those people are selling the coupons on eBay or having trade lists that have exorbitant amounts of multiples on them. And that raises another issue....

[Brynhilde]

Actually, Brynhilde, the reason stacking worked for so long is that coupon redemption is based on the amount of product sold over a three month period. So, if 100 customers came in and bought Dove and didn't use a coupon, but 20 came in and used 2 coupons each, the retailer could demonstrate that they had sold enough product to cover the coupons they were submitting. Now that stacking has become so popular, the equation is not working. My London Drugs told me that they used to have a few stackers a week. At the height of stacking -- when we could stack P&G -- they were multiples of that number every day. You need the number of non-coupon users to outweigh the couponers and that is not happening any more....

Not necessarily... I've worked in retail both in pricing management and UPC departments and in provinces where you are not permitted to stack, it actually costs a company a lot because the manufacturer can refuse to accept the coupons.

Like I mentioned, if an employee is not reading the fine print and just allowing a customer to use 50 coupons for 10 Dove products and the sale of said item in that week was only 17 (7 purchased, 10 vendor coupon sales), it does throw the balance off. The manufacturer may then ask (if they are nice) to see proof of total sales OR may refuse to reimburse the retailer. I've seen it happen in provinces, again that don't allow stacking and it's a p-off for retailers who then have to mark up those products to make up lost money/discourage sales for that particular item.

I cannot speak for BC because I don't live/work there but I can tell you about how it doesn't work in places where stacking is not permitted. As a customer in ON, I find it dishonest when people try and get away with stacking when the coupon/retailer clearly states they do not permit it. Everyone pays for it in the end somehow.

[Brynhilde]

Some of those people are selling the coupons on eBay or having trade lists that have exorbitant amounts of multiples on them. And that raises another issue....

Absolutely. I was reading on that issue (illegal sales of coupons on eBay) in another thread and it was interesting to see different opinions on the topic.

[DianneS]

[QUOTE
Like I mentioned, if an employee is not reading the fine print and just allowing a customer to use 50 coupons for 10 Dove products and the sale of said item in that week was only 17 (7 purchased, 10 vendor coupon sales), it does throw the balance off. The manufacturer may then ask (if they are nice) to see proof of total sales OR may refuse to reimburse the retailer. I've seen it happen in provinces, again that don't allow stacking and it's a p-off for retailers who then have to mark up those products to make up lost money/discourage sales for that particular item.
.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. Given that, I would guess then that in the nitty gritty of 'fine print' most manufacturers are likely able to ask for whatever proof they want from the retailer these days. And if the retailer wants to continue selling their product, they would have to comply.

[Brynhilde]

Pretty much. And sometimes the manufacturers don't even have to ask because they know how much of their product is going to a particular store (through shipments for example). It's really a big cycle and that's the best way I can explain it. It costs a retailer money to receive, store and market an item on their shelves. When people are using x coupons on one product when only one is allowed, it just costs everyone money.

And I think the person who started this thread was trying to raise concerns about how some stores in provinces where stacking IS permitted are now refusing certain coupons or disallowing stacking because there is a loss of profit/fraud.

[MillieH]

I'm confused as to why people are blaming the couponers for using the coupons & options that are available. Whether this applies to normal purchasing , stacking or overage. The service is offered by the stores whether it be London Drugs for stacking, WM & GT for overage. They create this option to draw people into their stores, to hopefully keep them from going to other stores.

I'm in Ontario so don't get the opportunity to stack, it looks awesome but I'm so amazed at what I can get without stacking I don't feel I'm missing out on anything. I take advantage of offers here.. when I could budget my spending for the next year, turn money into gift cards and save a bit over 10% I did ..I used it to earn $500 in points.. I didn't feel that I was abusing the system.. I felt like I was using what was offered to get value for my $$

If the peeps who are stacking are following the rules and getting products for a week, a month , a year, a lifetime, it means they used what was available.. London Drugs created the system and offered the option, people will take varying amounts when that happens.

The same thing happens when there is overage, some will pick up a few , some will pick u p hundreds. The rest will do something in between all that.

If the stores see this as a problem they should set limits.

We all have opinions on what is the right way to do things.. its just that an opinion.. Our way is only the right way for us.