Who would be responsible?

[angel_2011]

My friend and I were having a discussion regarding this, and we could not find an answer online, so I figured I'd ask my fellow SCers for help.

Ok, so who would be responsible:

Mr. X is a plumber. His Ontario driver's license got suspended.

He posted a "driver wanted" ad on a job site (so he could hire a driver to drive him to his work locations (residential or business, depending on who needs a plumber)) and stated in the ad, that he is looking for an individual with a valid driver's license.

Mr. X hired Mr. Y, however, he forgot to check Mr. Y's driver's license when he hired him. During the course of employment (approximately 5 months), Mr. X found out that Mr. Y only holds a driver's license from another country.

Now, the question is - if Mr. Y was to have an accident while driving Mr. X's van, as the employer, would Mr. X be responsible in any way for the accident?

Hope the story and question makes sense

[MrsSunshine]

Im not 100% on this. but I do believe he is. however to what point im not sure. he more than likely does not have 'valid' insurance for the country he is in as his license is for another country.
Mr. X should have photocopied Mr. Y's license so he'd had a copy in his records JIC. if he did he should have caught that.
So Mr. X is responsible for that part.
what is Mr. Y responsible for. well that could make a good argument, if he has to pay damages to the van as he was driving it.. does he have insurance thats valid to cover expenses.
there are quite a few variables in this.
hope you get the right answers you need.

[i_forget]

Well, there is a nice bit of trouble here.

If you live in Ontario, you have 60 days to exchange your drivers license from another country to Ontario (Exchange agreements exist between Ontario and: other Canadian provinces and territories, Canadian Forces Europe, U.S.A., Australia, Austria, Belgium, France, Great Britain, Germany, Isle of Man, Japan, Korea, Northern Ireland and Switzerland.)

If you are from another country not listed, you have to go through graduated licensing.

So I would say Yes....the employer would be in a bit of hot water.

[Darth Penguin]

It's not that simple as a driver even from exempted countries still has some hurdles to clear before getting a new licence

Self Declaration Policy

• This policy only applies to applicants for Class G licences.
• As of January 12, 2007, all applicants presenting a valid out-of-country licence must self-declare their driving experience on the driver’s licence application form at the time of application.
• The ministry will recognize the amount of driving experience self-declared on the driver’s licence application form.
• Applicants who self-declare less than 12 months of driving experience within the preceding three years, will be credited with the amount of driving experience declared.
• Applicants who self-declare 12 months or more driving experience within the preceding three years will have the 12 months G1 waiting period waived.

Applicants declaring 12 months and less of driving experience within the preceding three years:

• Applicants must have 12 months driving experience before attempting the G1 road test.
• If the applicant successfully completes a ministry-approved Beginner Driver Education course, the mandatory waiting time, prior to taking the G1 road test will be reduced from 12 to 8 months.
• The 8-12 months may be a combination of driving experience in the foreign jurisdiction and experience in Ontario.
• Applicants cannot return at a later date with an authentication document indicating that they have more than 12 months driving experience.

Applicants declaring more than 12 months of driving experience within the preceding three years:

• Applicants who self–declare more than 12 months of driving experience at the time of application are required to present written authentication of their out-of-country driving experience from the originating licensing agency, or from the Embassy, Consulate or High Commissioners’ offices representing the licensing jurisdiction.
• Applicants can present the authentication document either at the time of application or return at a later date to a DriveTest Centre with the authentication document to obtain more than 12 months credit for their out-of-country driving experience.
  
  • The authentication document must be on official letterhead and be written in either English or French. The authentication document must be dated and presented within six months from the date of issue. If the authentication document is written in another language other than English or French, it must be accompanied by a written translator from a ministry-approved translator.
  
  
• The ministry will recognize the applicant’s out-of-country driving experience as certified in the authentication document and apply the experience to the mandatory wait period of 12 months at the G2 level.
• If an applicant self-declares more than 12 months of driving experience at the time of application and does not present an authentication document, the applicant must fulfil the 12-month mandatory wait period at the G2 level before attempting a G2 road test.
• Applicants who have a minimum of 24 months driving experience within the preceding three years, has the option of attempting either the G1 or G2 road test.
  
  • If the applicant chooses to attempt a G1 road test and successfully completes it, the applicant will then be eligible to attempt the G2 road test without serving the mandatory 12 month wait period.
  • If the applicant chooses to attempt a G2 road test and is unsuccessful, the applicant will be required to successfully complete the G1 road test before re-attempting the G2 road test.
  • Upon successfully completing the G2 road test, applicants will be issued a Class G licence.
  
  

[Darth Penguin]

I know all I had to do when we moved to Qc was take my UK DL and supporting ID into SAAQ, tell them I was a driver with over x yrs experience( I had 5 yrs at that time), fill out a few forms and was issued a new DL.

back to the OP..I would place blame on Mr Xsince he should have made sure that all the paperwork was in order and I suspect that his insurance company would be getting ready to deny any claims for an un-acredited driver using his car in the same way as a minor or adult without a DL..

[FallenPixels]

Mr. X would be if it is his vehicle, if it is a driver with their own vehicle (even if they logo it etc) and Mr X is paying for the use of vehicle and driver (owner operator) he would not be

[kazm-l]

I know all I had to do when we moved to Qc was take my UK DL and supporting ID into SAAQ, tell them I was a driver with over x yrs experience( I had 5 yrs at that time), fill out a few forms and was issued a new DL.

Seriously! I had to take a written and driving test too!

[FallenPixels]

I did too!

[kazm-l]

OK - so i feel less cheated now,lol

Maybe Darth just batted her Penguin eyes and got a free pass....

[FallenPixels]

I also had to take an English test
Errrr so what happens if I fail it? They send me to school at their cost for English lessons?

[Zonny]

When I came here from the US I just had to surrender my FL license and I got a new one. Different provinces have agreements with other jurisdictions about exchanging licenses this way.

But back to the original problem. Seeing someone's license does not in any way prove that license is valid. They could have been asked to surrender it and didn't. You can't call RMV and check out someone else's license either. When I worked for them, I saw a lot of letters from people having to explain why person x was driving their vehicle when his license was suspended or revoked. Sometimes that reason was that person x showed the car owner their license so they assumed it was ok.

[FallenPixels]

Our insurance co asks for the license # and validates it when we add them as a driver on our trucks though, so maybe Mr X didnt do that which would cause issues even if it was a valid license

[Shwa Girl]

Now, the question is - if Mr. Y was to have an accident while driving Mr. X's van, as the employer, would Mr. X be responsible in any way for the accident?

Mr X is insured, not Mr Y.
Mr X is responsible.

Mr. X should get his license suspension corrected as soon as possible.

[FallenPixels]

Sometimes suspensions are for a certain time

[angel_2011]

thanks for the answers, i never knew Mr. X would be responsible... I always assumed it would be Mr. Y.