Police brutality? Toronto police gun happy? Disgusting

[vesper]

I agree that not everyone is suited for their job, but there is no testing that can be done that truely evaluates how anyone would react in any given situation. Yes, there are some officers that should not be on the job just as there are some politicians who should be fired etc.
Someone holding a knife and not yielding to the officers request is threatening, I was not there and will not judge the officer for their reaction to the situation - but I will ask -Would you have stepped in to change what happened? What would you have done in this situation? Remember there are innocent bystanders right behind you.....what risk are you willing to take?

You can weed out people who are obviously not suited. Those who have emotional reactions to scary things, those who cannot evaluate a situation properly, those who have anger issues, those who are slow to adapt and process information in real time.

Other than that, it is impossible to know how someone will react when they are facing a potential deadly situation. There are cops who freeze in fear and don't pull the trigger and end up dead.

But me, if I was the responding officer, I am going to do whatever it takes to sweep that bus for victims, no stupid knife wielding loudmouth is going to stop me. I'm not going to let him anywhere near the drivers seat, I am not going to sllow him access to any other weapons he may have.

Ironically, as I stated, the people who do most of the criticising (judges lawyers, political people, activists), are the least mentally capable of being a police officer.

[lessthannat]

Because it is not an excuse. You don't know the situation, you were not there. You have second/third hand knowledge of what went on just like everybody else.
This is a tragic situation, a boy died, an officer is traumatized - I am sure he did not wake up that day thinking, HEY let's kill a kid on a bus. Two families & countless friends/people are affected by this and I am sure are in mourning.

Don't judge me or my understanding like you know me.
Cops are human, just like you and me, some good, some bad. That is just a fact of life. But pointing the finger at the cop without having the full investigation is jumping the gun as they say.
I am not taking sides by any means, but just as it is unfair to judge the boy that got shot, it is also unfair to judge the officer.
Everybody is always quick to judge the officer.

What if he didn't shoot him, and the boy stabbed him or cut his throat? Subsequently killing him? Then we'd ask why didn't they shoot?
What if he didn't shoot him and the kid was set free, our justice system is great he'd be back on the street. AND then what if he turned around and did it again, this time harming a person on the bus? Perhaps even someone you know, then you'd also ask why didn't they shoot him? Why did our justice system fail us?

There is no right and wrong here. Just the outcome of unfortunate circumstances. The whole situation is just sad

:| ur the one that has shown a lack of understanding mental illness by your comments (unless you would like to make a retraction here) "mental illness is not an excuse" I am in question after seeing the videos as to wheather this action was necessary... not saying it 100% whose at fault... but question it by knowing even cops are not all good, some are power hungry, some improperly trained, some of which will also develop mental illness, and some no better then a criminal. Not all criminals have mental illness either... the probability of Sammys suffering from something is statistically 1 in 5 at some point in his life.... wish I had chances like that winning big at a lottery. Thus far the media outlet has not been to kind on this story. Do I believe in safe streets? 100%.... but understanding cops are human too, I also understand not all live by the rules. Thus I am able to question the act.

[Peachykeen2007]

Am I sorry a 18 yr old kid is dead - nope

do I blame the cop - nope

you can easily blame whatever on the cop for killing this kid however did you NOT HEAR several times from the cops - PUT DOWN THE KNIFE - it is a cops jobs to protect and serve and I am sorry if what i said above is hurtful, that kid had several opportunities to put down the knife and things would have turned out differently, yes maybe excessive to shoot that many times but we can't see where those 6 shots landed, for all we know all but 1 missed!

[Jina]

He died of multiple wounds. Not just 1.

I wonder, what was the threat for him to shoot 6 more times? He was down. Then use a taser? what's the reason for that?

I am not defending the kid, yes he did not listen to the cop. But the officer went over the top.

[vesper]

He died of multiple wounds. Not just 1.

I wonder, what was the threat for him to shoot 6 more times? He was down. Then use a taser? what's the reason for that?

I am not defending the kid, yes he did not listen to the cop. But the officer went over the top.

As I mentioned in my post, there are a couple reasons.

1) The suspect was still moving against orders
2) The cop had an experience only a person who just killed someone, or watched someone die gruesomely, which basically means you are entering shock.

I suspect the officer might have begun to enter shock since he also discharged his taser. Our minds deal with trauma differently. Still does not make him at fault nor criminally responsible.

Can you imagine having to kill someone even if it was justified? Consider all that rushing in your head. THe only mistake made here, was a guy choose to pull out a knife and behave aggressively. Due to the time and place, I suspect he planned it. being that he planned it, he formed intent, he had something he wanted to do. What? The audio from the bus holds the key.

[lessthannat]

http://jgjewell.com/2013/07/31/the-s...tified-or-not/

For those interested, this article raises some good points
It doesn't defend either party, just has some excellent perspective on the situation

[vesper]

Perfectly worded.

[lessthannat]

Well said Vesper. The cop is a 'victim' in his own right. I know this isn't a popular opinion but imagine the trauma of KNOWING you ended someone's life, never the less a 18 year old kid.
Just an all around bad situation for everyone involved and affected by the aftermath

[trishka]

He died of multiple wounds. Not just 1.

I wonder, what was the threat for him to shoot 6 more times? He was down. Then use a taser? what's the reason for that?

I am not defending the kid, yes he did not listen to the cop. But the officer went over the top.

Can you please cite where it was said that he died of multiple wounds? I haven't heard anything about the wounds he actually died of and my understanding is that the only information we have is that nine shots were fired.

[trishka]

http://jgjewell.com/2013/07/31/the-s...tified-or-not/

For those interested, this article raises some good points
It doesn't defend either party, just has some excellent perspective on the situation

I think this was very informative. It didn't judge either party but just laid out the considerations that need to be taken into consideration.

I think it is also very important that he pointed out that "People shot by the Police do not simply drop dead, a popular misconception popularized by Hollywood movies." It may explain why further shots were needed. It also may explain why he was tasered as well.

[tobiwobi]

I don't know vesper if it was the chicken or the egg, is the public negative to begin with or do they become negative after enough police aggression. In toronto its own travesty how many cops run pedestrians over and not because they are rushing to a call and not even a symbolic punishment.

I have come to this country after being exposed to a civil war and to me this officer faced a relatively low risk situation. I could have died every day for a year and it would not matter, like I was nothing. And that's what you have to think of someone to kill them. It always makes me wonder how come other officers don't step up when one of them is losing it. All the other officers there, why didn't they tell this guy to cool down, would have saved a life.

[tobiwobi]

I think this was very informative. It didn't judge either party but just laid out the considerations that need to be taken into consideration.

I think it is also very important that he pointed out that "People shot by the Police do not simply drop dead, a popular misconception popularized by Hollywood movies." It may explain why further shots were needed. It also may explain why he was tasered as well.

No it doesn't explain why he was shot multiple times and tasered and I have no Hollywood misconceptions.

[trishka]

Perception is everything and that is what a decision that this officer made was based on - his perception of the situation. Had you been the officer, maybe you wouldn't have shot, doesn't mean it would have saved a life. Could have been a civilian or even an officer instead.

[trishka]

No it doesn't explain why he was shot multiple times and tasered and I have no Hollywood misconceptions.

I never said it did explain. I said it may explain.

[vesper]

well I don't get what you are saying, that police provoke men into hijcking a bus waving a knife? so we should have sympathy for him?

Your averge police officer each day, takes a lot of crap from a lot of low life people. They also take crap from good citizens angry about something. The media has notoriously hostile towards police, pretty much labeling them all racists and violent.

They take crap from elected officials to, who keep adding more and more paperwork, while demanding more and more revenue via tickets and quicker action on arrests that have sparked public concern.

The show up to arrest a guy who just knocked his wife unconscious, only to recall, this is the 5th time they have done this.

They get taunted at court by a pedophile who just had the charges thrown out because police were slow to bring him a Fresca and Cookies when they arrested him, they collect evidence at a scene where a 5 year old was just murdered by a guy the Crown refused to prosecute because they were intimidated by his high profile expensive lawyer.

They work crappy hours and often have to miss out on family because some jerk decided to hijack a bus and wave a knife around seeking attention by doing it on a busy place on a Saturday night.

So yeah, you may wonder why cops allow themselves to get burnt out, but how come it is, that cops can endure all that crap day in and day out and not lose it, when some 18 year old with emotional issues can get away with what he did, and get parades for him?

Again, all these (small percentage BTW) folks who admit they don't know most of the facts yet can't wait to point the finger at law enforcement, when there safety is in jeopardy, they are not going to call community activists, lawyers, judges, media, journalists nor anyone else... they will seek a police officer, because there life is in danger and police is whom they know will save them.

p.s. If you ask me, more people (children to) are dead because of judges who really enjoy changing standards and creating new rules from the bench... letting bad guys free... and they really enjoy doing this when pedophiles are in front of them.. it's uncanny!