Do you believe in God?

[xox2010]

hmmm... is it possible to believe in evolution and god? Yes, I do believe that there is a higher power but I also believe in evolution in that we descended from apes.

[MortgageQueen]

Well, I must compliment you Dave on your obviously deep thinking on these things. It's a pleasure to talk to you about these things. And I want to do a shout out to Walkonby, that we're Not fighting. . .so please don't feel bad.

Why does Stephen Hawkings have ALS and I don't? Seems like an uneven meting out of God's mercy. We're both equally imperfect because of something we didn't do (let sin into the world).

I think we're going back to God being "responsible" for sickness. He does not cause sickness or tragedy. We brought that on ourselves I'm afraid. James 1:13 "When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone" ( I don't know about you. . .but ALS is pretty darn eveil in my estimation.)
Instead, he made a way "out" of this mess by sacrificing his one and only son to "cover over" that sin, so that we may have everlasting life.

(And it wasn't a man who let sin into the world)

This is an excellent point. I certainly won't disagree with you that Eve had more then a fair share of blame! BUT (you brought it up not me! lol) as you pointed out below, the male is the head of the family. As Adam "shared" in Eve's sin even though he knew better. . . he was ultimately responsible. In fact it shows this in the following 2 verses that you quoted.
1 Timothy 2:13,14 "For Adam was formed first, then Eve. ¹⁴ Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and came to be in transgression "
Adam was older and wiser and "not deceived".

1 Timothy 2:12-14
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. <I just wondered if this was for me??

For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

[DaveP]

Well that could be a whole other discussion. . .but consider Sodom and Gomorrah. God cast judgement on that city and destroyed it. .including it's children.
But again. . .if one considers the Bible in it's entirety, one would see that God also promises a resurrection of the good and the bad. Which in essence means all will have a chance to make up their own minds with full knowledge whether they would choose to serve God or not. . . . including those children.

No. There is no allowance anywhere in the Bible for changing your mind after death. There is one way, and one way only, to be Saved.

John 3:16-17
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Next verse, what happens to unbelievers?

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

No do-overs, you're toast.

[MortgageQueen]

Why is it you feel that way xoa2010?

[DaveP]

I think we're going back to God being "responsible" for sickness. He does not cause sickness or tragedy. We brought that on ourselves I'm afraid.

By Adam and Eve disobeying God? Then God set this punishment on them and all their descendants. How can He not be responsible for His own punishment/

James 1:13 "When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone" ( I don't know about you. . .but ALS is pretty darn eveil in my estimation.)

Indeed it is. But God created evil.


Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Instead, he made a way "out" of this mess by sacrificing his one and only son to "cover over" that sin, so that we may have everlasting life.

And if we don't He'll send us to Hell to burn in agony for eternity.

[MortgageQueen]

No. There is no allowance anywhere in the Bible for changing your mind after death. There is one way, and one way only, to be Saved.

John 3:16-17
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Next verse, what happens to unbelievers?

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

No do-overs, you're toast.

At the risk of this getting really in depth. . .
John 5:25-29 “Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. ²⁶ For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. ²⁷ And he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is. ²⁸ Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice ²⁹ and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment"

So. . . here it says "all" will be resurrected. It also says that is true of those that did vile things. Why do you think that might be? If they were already judged (or "toast") that would be a tad sillyand a waste of time. It would be sentencing them twice for the same thing.
Another fact to consider. . . How many millions of people do you suppose who have lived on this earth at one time or another have never even heard a whisper of Christianity, let alone had a chance to "believe". Are they condemned? No. God is perfect in his justice and that is not justice. Everyone gets a chance to know about Him. What they do with that opportunity is their own decision, but they at least have to have the opportunity.

[DaveP]

At the risk of this getting really in depth. . .
John 5:25-29 “Most truly I say to YOU, The hour is coming, and it is now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who have given heed will live. ²⁶ For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. ²⁷ And he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is. ²⁸ Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice ²⁹ and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment"


So. . . here it says "all" will be resurrected. It also says that is true of those that did vile things. Why do you think that might be? If they were already judged (or "toast") that would be a tad sillyand a waste of time. It would be sentencing them twice for the same thing.

Yep, that says exactly what I said. The judged are sent to Hell. And as John 3:18 points out, the only way to Heaven is through belief in Christ. Read the verses you quoted, you are judged on what you've done in the past. No chance to fix anything after death. If you were an unbeliever it's the fire for you. Forever.

Another fact to consider. . . How many millions of people do you suppose who have lived on this earth at one time or another have never even heard a whisper of Christianity, let alone had a chance to "believe". Are they condemned? No.

Yes, they are, John 3:18 again.

God is perfect in his justice and that is not justice.

I completely agree that that is unjust.

Everyone gets a chance to know about Him. What they do with that opportunity is their own decision, but they at least have to have the opportunity.

No, billions across the centuries have never heard of Christianity. Seems an odd oversight for God. My wife is Inuit and her ancestors never heard about Christianity. Why didn't they have that opportunity?

[MortgageQueen]

[QUOTE=DaveP;4600487]By Adam and Eve disobeying God? Then God set this punishment on them and all their descendants. How can He not be responsible for His own punishment/

I think the scripture below answers that best. It was the one and only thing on the entire earth they couldn't have. There is no other clearer way to state the consequence then the way God stated it below.
Action>consequence. We teach our children that, society know that when they break the law. Is it the Law's "fault" if someone breaks it? No. Society is fully informed they cannot steal/murder etc. without a strict punishment being imposed.

Genesis 2:16, 17 "And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. ¹⁷ But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.



Indeed it is. But God created evil.


Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Again I would have to say looking at the Bible in it's entirety, you would come to the conclusion that Yes, God "brought down" evil on the wicked on whom he had judged. He has "enforced" the consequence to those that were warned and informed.



And if we don't He'll send us to Hell to burn in agony for eternity.[/QUOTE

Thankfully the scriptures below say that won't happen. You can't burn in agony if "your thoughts have perished" or you are "conscious of nothing at all"

Psalms 146:4 "His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish"
Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten."

[krysta lynne]

No. absolutely not. It is a ridiculous obsession that has spawned a society of brainwashed morons who think some eye in the sky is going to save them or let them live in some eternal heaven. It's ludicrous.

[Miss_April]

o________o

this is going to end well.

[krysta lynne]

o________o

this is going to end well.

meh. personal opinion. im free to have one. but to clarify. i am not calling people moronic. i am calling the idea of religion moronic.

[MortgageQueen]

Yep, that says exactly what I said. The judged are sent to Hell. And as John 3:18 points out, the only way to Heaven is through belief in Christ. Read the verses you quoted, you are judged on what you've done in the past. No chance to fix anything after death. If you were an unbeliever it's the fire for you. Forever.

MQ Another fact to consider. . . How many millions of people do you suppose who have lived on this earth at one time or another have never even heard a whisper of Christianity, let alone had a chance to "believe". Are they condemned? No.



Dave P Yes, they are, John 3:18 again.

Dave, let's look at that scripture again for a minute. It says "he that believeth not is condemned already."

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

"believe" is an action, yes? You can't believe "or not believe " in something you don't know even exists.


DaveP> "Yep, that says exactly what I said. The judged are sent to Hell. And as John 3:18 points out, the only way to Heaven is through belief in Christ. Read the verses you quoted, you are judged on what you've done in the past. No chance to fix anything after death. If you were an unbeliever it's the fire for you. Forever"

i'm afraid you lost me here. Maybe you can expound on that a bit more.

[Sally888]

o________o

this is going to end well.

Now now April, lets wait until that time then deal with it then. People here wont fight. *aye aye aye*

Notice how the op hasn't come back?

[krysta lynne]

there is no fighting on smart canucks. just discussion.

and in every discussion is an opportunity for opposing sides to voice their views.

[Sally888]

I personally dont come on Sc to read bible quotes, religion etc.