So Disappointed

[FallenPixels]

She said assistance, not single welfare from what i see?

[sharkie]

Sorry it seemed to me that she mentioned trying to survive on $480 a month the single person rate...it just made me curious...

[SavenRaven]

I wonder what is greater... The number of people that abuse the welfare system, or the number of people that abused the SDM Kraft Promo? Tee Hee Hee. Anyone have any stats on that? I wouldn't be surprised if SDM started charging a new "cadbury" tax to try to relieve some of the deficit caused by the promo this past week.

*Of course, I am kidding. Just trying to lighten it up in here a bit*

[FallenPixels]

She said some time ago, that could well be a group rate for someone not paying housing?

[sharkie]

lol very funny SavenRaven

[Kalmel]

And that is the problem with the individualist society we live in. Yes some people may abuse it, there is rotten apples everywhere but because of a handful of person you noticed abusing it you want to stop helping everyone. I don't have kids and yet I have to pay school taxes. I don't complain about it, because Education makes a better society. We need a better society. We also need social assistance because without that we may become a third world country.

Addiction is an illness and while I am not ok to give any addict to get his/her fix, I am for spending tax dollars on program to help them. It's hard to judge someone with problems when we are not in his/her exact spot. yes some may have been able to quit cold turkey but for some it's much harder then others.

I am for a more structured social aid then what we have now but please, don't put everyone in the same boat by saying everyone (or the majority) abuse it.

What is the point in commenting when words are added that i never even mentioned??? where did i say everyone (or the majority) abuse it?? where?? Before quoting someone, please read everything and not in between the lines. If my comments needed clarification, i'd be more than happy to answer them but please dont write things or conclude what you think is what i said or meant.

I am not for paying for drugs, smokes, beer etc.... never did i mentioned i wouldnt be willing for some types of programs to help them get off these habits/disease or whatever you want to call it. I do give to charities and animal shelters..anybody that read my posts over the years knows that i take huge proud in helping people when i can and give what i can. But nobody will ever convince me to be a happy bunny paying for drugs, smokes and beer and while some might find smokes to be some kind of comfort, for me, i get some comfort in complaining about how wrong this is!

[super807]

Personally, I feel uncomfortable with the idea of required drug testing. I'm uncomfortable with it for regular work places too, not just assistance recipients. I'm uncomfortable with it because to me it feels like a sweeping presumption of guilt with a requirement to prove innocence. I would like to think that we live in a society and a country where there is a presumption of innocence and a requirement to prove guilt.

The idea of having a person who is receiving assistance be required to have all of their expenses tracked electronically through a debit card also does not sit well with me. Where is the line drawn? What is an acceptable thing to spend money on? Who decides that? Some thought expressed in this thread have indicated that some people think someone on assistance shouldn't be allowed to have pets as they are a luxury. I think of my friend who did recieve OW for a period as she was genuinely in need. If she had been required to give up her 2 cats to receive assistance, it would have been one more blow to her at a time that she was suffering so much already. Her cats were a source of comfort to her and members of her family. They were fed really cheap cat food and she wasn't able to get them vet care. But they were so important for her and to her eventual recovery. But some people would see them as unnecessary.

I just think it's a really slippery slope...

[sharkie]

actually that is the single rate and she said in her post trying to survive on single welfare....it is no big deal...I guess I figure we are all entitled to our own opinion...

[FallenPixels]

Guys I am starting to get PMs about personal attacks, I removed some comments already within posts. Please keep it civil

[DianneS]

I also wanted to add DianneS that just because someone was going through a tough time would not make it right to disreguard rules if that were the case

I agree wholeheartedly that a tough time does not justify breaking the rules. My reference to
a tough time was simply that it is not likely that she or any of us would want to publicly discuss on the Internet

[Kalmel]

Guys I am starting to get PMs about personal attacks, I removed some comments already within posts. Please keep it civil

crap, knew from the get go to go watch tv..lol!!! sorry about that. I'll stay away from this thread from now on because it causing me a rash..LOL!!

[matrix82]

Wow, quite a bit of conversation happening here.

There are people who abuse the system, and know how to abuse the system. I've worked for years with people who are in the system. The charities I have worked for have been scammed. There is no way to avoid the scammers. We worked in close relationship with a government agency, we would report we provided so and so with this amount of money for rent, groceries etc. Even in doing all the background check and connecting with a government agency we still got scammed.

I remember one woman coming to the door crying about how she didn't have any money for formula for her baby. The custodian had seen the woman stash a 24 case of beer in the bushes before she came in. I found out that after we gave her grocery cards. We used to give grocery cards until we found out that the locally run grocery store cards were being pawned (girl who worked at the grocery store had a boyfriend who worked at the pawn shop, so they could redeem the cards for cash). So we had to stop offering grocery cards. We offer grocery's now, as a supplement for the food bank. A few times had women without children getting diapers and other pricier items, to then sell. There doesn't seem to be a way to us to reach out and help those who need help without getting scammed.

I've been lied to, I've been cursed at and threatened when not giving support to someone, once we did the background check and found their story didn't pan out. I remember once giving about $60 worth of groceries to a woman who then proceeded to curse at me because I wouldn't drive her home or call (and pay) her a cab (she was able bodied and only lived two blocks away). I was told how worthless this support was etc etc, she ended up leaving in a huff, leaving the groceries behind. We locked the doors scared after the tantrum and threats she made. Looking back I think she may have been coming on or off of something.

It is heartbreaking to know we are getting scammed everyday. There are a few people who do need the help, but at least with us, the majority of the people coming in have enough money coming in and support from other agencies, but they have issues around budgeting. They spend money on things other than food. I had a homeless man once warn me, "Don't give money to anyone, they have more than enough support coming in". This was from a guy living in a shelter, he had seen many people who had scammed, he however with nothing wasn't trying to scam or ask for support. I've thought of that guy often, I'd seen him weekly, he was estatic about getting an mp3 player that a local church had given to every person in the shelter, as he could load it up for free at the library.

I know people are going to complain why is a church giving away mp3 players instead of food, to that guy that little piece of technology gave him some joy and comfort, he could also block out the negative slurs being thrown at him daily because of his homelessness (due to I think mental illness).

There will always be scammers, there will always be the legitimate cases. I would rather someone come and be truthful and say look I will spend this $20 on booze rather than food. I get upset seeing those cheating the system. I work next door to an assisted rent building and have to close my windows most days because of the cigarrette smoke of the residents. I know working full time I can't afford to smoke, how can someone on assistance afford to smoke, I don't know. Not for me to judge. It does get frustrating though.

I just don't think there is a way that we could avoid the scammers. If we had a debit card system we would have people buying groceries for someone else in order to get the cash to buy booze, drugs etc. People with an addiction will figure out a way to get around the system no matter what measures we put into place. If we get rid of the system there will be those people with legitimate need for a period of time who will be affected.

[JennyFromTheRock]

Personally, I feel uncomfortable with the idea of required drug testing. I'm uncomfortable with it for regular work places too, not just assistance recipients. I'm uncomfortable with it because to me it feels like a sweeping presumption of guilt with a requirement to prove innocence. I would like to think that we live in a society and a country where there is a presumption of innocence and a requirement to prove guilt.

The idea of having a person who is receiving assistance be required to have all of their expenses tracked electronically through a debit card also does not sit well with me. Where is the line drawn? What is an acceptable thing to spend money on? Who decides that? Some thought expressed in this thread have indicated that some people think someone on assistance shouldn't be allowed to have pets as they are a luxury. I think of my friend who did recieve OW for a period as she was genuinely in need. If she had been required to give up her 2 cats to receive assistance, it would have been one more blow to her at a time that she was suffering so much already. Her cats were a source of comfort to her and members of her family. They were fed really cheap cat food and she wasn't able to get them vet care. But they were so important for her and to her eventual recovery. But some people would see them as unnecessary.

I just think it's a really slippery slope...

My husband is required to have drug testing for work because of the high risk factor of his job. Everyone on his crew are at risk when he is operating. People with my husbands position in other companies have had their assistants get killed.... 2 alone this year. Therefore, drug testing is very important.

[sharkie]

Sorry FallenPixel if you are getting PMs about this....I know that part of being a mod sucks...I truly feel that no one it attacking anyone....everyone has a right to their own views....I think anyone posting a new thread would no that not everyone is going to agree..that is just part of life...there are no right or wrongs about this..only people with different views....I know at times there may people people who are a little more sensitive than others..I think when that is the case they should not start threads or read other peoples posts....everyone has a choice on what they want to read....There have been many times on here that I see things I find offensive but I do not pm and bother the mods...I just choose not to read or particapate in the thread that I find offensive.....

[FallenPixels]

super807 there are countries using the card system, it allows for stores generally (although some do have UPCs of items not allowed coded in, likely bc those countries sell booze in grocery stores) so something like No Frills would be allowed and you can buy petfood there. I volunteer at animal shelters and most of them have an animal assistance program where they can help out those in need with pet food