So Disappointed

[TIMMYS]

I guess it all depends on the location you live and what you see. I can say that in the province I grew up in, there were far more abusers than there were people who needed it. As I said, entire families, and each new family member getting their own claim with coming of age.

I also wonder if the reason you see these recipients as being in desperate need of assistance is because of your work?? I mean, if I were on welfare and I was going to see my welfare officer, I'd be on my best behavior as well. Criminals are on their best behavior before a judge...... drivers slow down when they see a police officer...... shop lifters stop when they see a store clerk....... I can't help but wonder if welfare workers are getting a jaded view because of their position. Realistically, the people who abuse the system dont walk into the welfare office saying "Hi, I'm here to pick up my welfare cheque, oh by the way, I'm going to spend it all on beer and blow" They walk in saying they are down on their luck, sick or have hungry kids. Abusers of the system have it all figured out and know exactly what I say to get what they want. I'm sure of all your cases there are at least a few who have fed you a bullpoo sandwich.

<removed> It is not at all the way that you have stated but it's ok. You have a right to your opinion.
I am sure that you would not have wanted to be judged by those who don't know your life. Considering your recent weight loss post I am sure that you must have experienced some negative opinions in your past.
I am simply saying don't judge, cause you don't know what pain is within them and you don't know what their life holds. And consider yourself lucky you don't

[Kalmel]

Oh ok... i'm forced in giving MY MONEY that i WORK for in taxes that goes for welfare but i cannot judge my neighbor that's on welfare and spending My MONEY on beer because he might have demons of some kind??? I'm sorry but no matter how you put this..demons, the boogyman it doesnt make it right! It's not ok to take hard earn money from average working families that many are already struggling to give some of what they work for to people that needs a beer because he/she cant seem to break the cycle or cigarettes to someone else because it might be the only pleasure they have.

So yes, i have a huge problem paying taxes for these type of people when i sure could use more of my money to give to my children on things they need and cant have because i'm stuck paying taxes left and right. Just recently, after paying school supplies and basic items for school, my oldest had to wait on some items because i just couldnt afford paying for both girls all at once...if my drunk of a neighbor would of smiled at me that day, i think i would of smacked him with a huge stick.

Sorry if this ruffles some feathers but i'm far from being ok with this...

[firstimer1969]

Have a listen from 3:30 - 4:20.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G33WvuOw2cI

Ironically, this guy (Greg Giraldo) was a successful comedian who left the legal profession for comedy. He died in 2010 from a drug over dose when he was 44. I guess he was addicted and couldn't stop wanting drugs.

[JennyFromTheRock]

I agree with your post.

I don't find this picture to be very offensive at all. I do not mind helping people that truly need help. My question is how to determine those that need help and those that don't? I'm sure the system has flaws, but I think the question is what to do about those flaws? Is there a system that would actually work?

There will always be people that take advantage of the system and find all the loopholes that they can. There are also the honest people that don't take advantage, and often these are the people that end up not getting any help/very little help.

What I find offensive is that this picture serves to highlight the people that are taking advantage, rather than helping those that don't take advantage of a system meant to help. It causes people to think that their tax dollars are being wasted, when there are some people that really do need the help.

I don't necessarily agree with having to work for the money, if the people are unable to work (physical/mental illnesses). I do, however, agree that they should have to work to obtain the money if they are able to. I do know some people using welfare, or have used it in the past. They used it because the cost of childcare was so high that they could not afford to work. The amount they made at work just barely covered the cost of daycare. There are many places that give free daycare, but sometimes they are full and not able to take more children. When this is the case, it could be difficult for the parent to leave the house to work. I think each person and their situation should be considered individually to determine whether or not they are able to work. If they are, this could be helpful for them in terms of developing a resume in order to apply to other jobs.

I think another reason people are angered over the people who use these funds for drugs, cigarettes and a alcohol , is because it takes funds away from the people who truly do need the services. There is no need to highlight the people who actually do need the services, they aren't doing anything wrong.

[sharkie]

Oh ok... i'm forced in giving MY MONEY that i WORK for in taxes that goes for welfare but i cannot judge my neighbor that's on welfare and spending My MONEY on beer because he might have demons of some kind??? I'm sorry but no matter how you put this..demons, the boogyman it doesnt make it right! It's not ok to take hard earn money from average working families that many are already struggling to give some of what they work for to people that needs a beer because he/she cant seem to break the cycle or cigarettes to someone else because it might be the only pleasure they have.

So yes, i have a huge problem paying taxes for these type of people when i sure could use more of my money to give to my children on things they need and cant have because i'm stuck paying taxes left and right. Just recently, after paying school supplies and basic items for school, my oldest had to wait on some items because i just couldnt afford paying for both girls all at once...if my drunk of a neighbor would of smiled at me that day, i think i would of smacked him with a huge stick.

Sorry if this ruffles some feathers but i'm far from being ok with this...

Very well said Kamel

[FallenPixels]

TIMMYS I think the point for most people is that those who are in need of social assistance would, like many of us do for work, agree to drug testing. Did I enjoy random drug tests? No. But I did enjoy the benefit of having a decent job and the salary, benefits and experience that came with that job. I don't think it is a majority either, but there is a loud and obvious number of cases out there (look how many people know one here) that are abusing the system and are also taking away the $$ that could be used for those real cases.

Personally, I think drug testing would cost more than it would save, people would still get people to supply them with a cup of pee etc but I am for ensuring the taxes I pay do not go towards bad habits when they could have a kid sitting at home with no food. As I mentioned before, a card useable at some stores (as the poster after me pointed out, similar to a flexible health spending account in the US) is something I think would curb the misuse. My family work in construction and there are so many drunks on jobsites being paid under the table while collecting welfare and are completely honest about doing so to anyone who will listen. Not that I want to smoke a pack a day or drink a 24 of beer a day, but it would put a strain on my finances if I did like they do.

[sharkie]

The thing is people make these comments yet are so ignorant (in the truest sense of the word, meaning uninformed).

I myself have been on assistance years ago when I was going through a rough time. I spent this money on rent (lived with MIL) and food. I was luckily only on it for a few months because I was able to get help from DH's family and I found a job. So I know how much they give a single person and do you know how much that is? Probably not if you're paying $60, 000 a year in taxes yikes! You get $480 a month. I have heard some people get up to $580. This does NOT pay your rent and no they do not cover your rent for you. They do not give you food stamps (as far as I know this is an American thing, maybe it's different in other provinces I live in Ontario) , and you're allowed to visit the food bank once a MONTH. Again, not sure the rules in other provinces but this is the case where I live. So people are supposed to pay rent and bills and buy food with $480 a month yet rent even with room mates is usually that price alone.

Maybe the reason parents sold their kids' textbooks and accepted new ones is to pay for food and clothes



for their kids. Do you accept a tax break on things you're eligible for? Do you hand in receipts to get money

back? Why? Because you're entitled to. If it's something they offer, and they can make a bit of money b

o send their kids to school with new shoes I personally don't see any harm in it.

When you say, 'If they want cash, get a job' you are forgetting about those who are slow (yes sadly some slow people have family who leave them to fend for themselves and I have seen so many people struggling and on welfare because of this), have abused drugs so are dealing with mental issues due to that, or had a rough past and have criminal records therefor are turned down for jobs. I know that a lot of Ontario Works offices require you to be actively seeking jobs and help you apply and need to see proof. This is helpful for them in some ways, especially those who have never been taught how to write up a resume, etc. It's hard to find a job for someone without these issues, at least where I live it is!

I guess I would just like to see some compassion rather than slander. In the end, if you really want something done about the situation, you should volunteer some way to try and help the people who do abuse the system. Help people kick their bad addictions and show them support and a new way of living rather than calling them low lives (in not so many words) because that's really not going to help at all.

ETA: not picking on you just kind of ended up using your post to reply

The one thing I found very interesting on this post what you had said and no one else had picked up on it...you said you had went through a difficult time and had to be on single welfare and live with you MIL..I was wondering since you and your Dh were together why were you on single welfare?

[Mich649]

I work at the Nova Scotia Liquor Corporation, and I know when cheque-day is.........I find I have mixed feelings on this subject, as I see daily the same faces who have told me personally they are on welfare. And then there are people who I did not even know were on welfare, but needed the help at the time (these people I didn't see at my workplace). I just feel I choose not to smoke (bad for you, and expensive), I drink only when I can afford to (working where I do , and seeing the same faces every day. I have better places to spend my money), why are we contributing to others abusing? I'm not saying not to help people who need it, but they should have to account for where the money is, and prove where it went. I know if I were to recieve help financially, I would not have any problem proving where it went, especially where my kids are involved. And knowing what I know about couponing, I don't think I ever will be on it, lol!

[Arielmac]

Oh ok... i'm forced in giving MY MONEY that i WORK for in taxes that goes for welfare but i cannot judge my neighbor that's on welfare and spending My MONEY on beer because he might have demons of some kind??? I'm sorry but no matter how you put this..demons, the boogyman it doesnt make it right! It's not ok to take hard earn money from average working families that many are already struggling to give some of what they work for to people that needs a beer because he/she cant seem to break the cycle or cigarettes to someone else because it might be the only pleasure they have.

So yes, i have a huge problem paying taxes for these type of people when i sure could use more of my money to give to my children on things they need and cant have because i'm stuck paying taxes left and right. Just recently, after paying school supplies and basic items for school, my oldest had to wait on some items because i just couldnt afford paying for both girls all at once...if my drunk of a neighbor would of smiled at me that day, i think i would of smacked him with a huge stick.

Sorry if this ruffles some feathers but i'm far from being ok with this...

And that is the problem with the individualist society we live in. Yes some people may abuse it, there is rotten apples everywhere but because of a handful of person you noticed abusing it you want to stop helping everyone. I don't have kids and yet I have to pay school taxes. I don't complain about it, because Education makes a better society. We need a better society. We also need social assistance because without that we may become a third world country.

Addiction is an illness and while I am not ok to give any addict to get his/her fix, I am for spending tax dollars on program to help them. It's hard to judge someone with problems when we are not in his/her exact spot. yes some may have been able to quit cold turkey but for some it's much harder then others.

I am for a more structured social aid then what we have now but please, don't put everyone in the same boat by saying everyone (or the majority) abuse it.

[sharkie]

Have a listen from 3:30 - 4:20.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G33WvuOw2cI

Ironically, this guy (Greg Giraldo) was a successful comedian who left the legal profession for comedy. He died in 2010 from a drug over dose when he was 44. I guess he was addicted and couldn't stop wanting drugs.

\
I love this video...

[JennyFromTheRock]

I work at the Nova Scotia Liquor Corporation, and I know when cheque-day is.........I find I have mixed feelings on this subject, as I see daily the same faces who have told me personally they are on welfare. And then there are people who I did not even know were on welfare, but needed the help at the time (these people I didn't see at my workplace). I just feel I choose not to smoke (bad for you, and expensive), I drink only when I can afford to (working where I do , and seeing the same faces every day. I have better places to spend my money), why are we contributing to others abusing? I'm not saying not to help people who need it, but they should have to account for where the money is, and prove where it went. I know if I were to recieve help financially, I would not have any problem doing so, especially where my kids are involved.

A friend of mine who works in a lounge has the same view, he said on welfare day they would always have extra staff on because it was one of their busiest days between the bar and the vlt's.

[DianneS]

As I read Bronwens post I see that she said her husbands family helped her out during a difficult time. I sincerely hope no one is inferring that she was misusing the system. I don't find it necessary to know the exCt details of her marriage or personal life at the time. I think she was pretty clear that it was not a great time in her life

[FallenPixels]

Bronwen, it is certainly different in other areas, even within the province

TIMMYS may be able to confirm these details better since they work at OW but according to the studies, a family of 4 (2 adults, 2 kids) in Ontario would get a payment for basic needs ($448 - food and clothing etc) and shelter ($688) on top of that there is help for education costs, smoke detectors or minor repairs in the home etc on a case by case basis plus any child benefits you are entitled to.

Is it enough that you could live comfortably? probably not. Getting a decent place in the GTA for $688 isnt happening, but they may qualify for geared to income housing etc

[sharkie]

I do not think that was the case....I was curious because I thought to be on single welfare you had to be single and not be living with a partner....Perhaps maybe the laws have changed and you are allowed

[sharkie]

As I read Bronwens post I see that she said her husbands family helped her out during a difficult time. I sincerely hope no one is inferring that she was misusing the system. I don't find it necessary to know the exCt details of her marriage or personal life at the time. I think she was pretty clear that it was not a great time in her life

I also wanted to add DianneS that just because someone was going through a tough time would not make it right to disreguard rules if that were the case