So Disappointed

[FallenPixels]

Yes, we knew it would be a hot topic, but some of the comments removed were definitely attacks

its one thing finding the general tone offensive, its another actually attacking a member for their views or calling them names and is against the SC rules. I would rather remind people of that than let it get to a point of bad feelings or members being warned

[sharkie]

I agree wholeheartedly that a tough time does not justify breaking the rules. My reference to
a tough time was simply that it is not likely that she or any of us would want to publicly discuss on the Internet

I agree with you on that point DianneS, but i also think that if you do not want it discussed on the net you should not bring it up....Because as I already said everyone has their own views and opinions...

[sharkie]

I also agree with helping someone who has pets and has to go on assistance....I have pets and know how important they are to me, but i would have a problem with someone who is already on assistance and having trouble buying food already who goes out and buys a pet...to me that is not being responsible...

As i said in my ealiar post i donate every month like clockwork...but should the people who choose to live above their means be entilted to get that stuuff that is donated or should it go the the people who really need it...that is the things I find unfair....

[Darth Penguin]

TIMMYS I think the point for most people is that those who are in need of social assistance would, like many of us do for work, agree to drug testing. Did I enjoy random drug tests? No. But I did enjoy the benefit of having a decent job and the salary, benefits and experience that came with that job. I don't think it is a majority either, but there is a loud and obvious number of cases out there (look how many people know one here) that are abusing the system and are also taking away the $$ that could be used for those real cases.

Personally, I think drug testing would cost more than it would save, people would still get people to supply them with a cup of pee etc but I am for ensuring the taxes I pay do not go towards bad habits when they could have a kid sitting at home with no food. As I mentioned before, a card useable at some stores (as the poster after me pointed out, similar to a flexible health spending account in the US) is something I think would curb the misuse. My family work in construction and there are so many drunks on jobsites being paid under the table while collecting welfare and are completely honest about doing so to anyone who will listen. Not that I want to smoke a pack a day or drink a 24 of beer a day, but it would put a strain on my finances if I did like they do.

Indeed..Florida had a policy of testing welfare recipients and found the cost out-weighed any savings.

From July through October in Florida — the four months when testing took place before Judge Scriven’s order — 2.6 percent of the state’s cash assistance applicants failed the drug test, or 108 of 4,086, according to the figures from the state obtained by the group. The most common reason was marijuana use. An additional 40 people canceled the tests without taking them. Because the Florida law requires that applicants who pass the test be reimbursed for the cost, an average of $30, the cost to the state was $118,140. This is more than would have been paid out in benefits to the people who failed the test, Mr. Newton said.
As a result, the testing cost the government an extra $45,780, he said.
And the testing did not have the effect some predicted. An internal document about Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, or TANF, caseloads stated that the drug testing policy, at least from July through September, did not lead to fewer cases.

[matrix82]

Maybe if we got Gail Vaz-Oxlade to do budgeting with High School students it would eliminate some of the issues beforehand.

I know if Gail came to me, she would want us to cut out our internet/phone/cable, and maybe get rid of our three cats and move into a cheaper apartment. We both work but stuggle with finances (our bills are paid each month but there is very little left over).

I really think budgeting is an issue for many people within Canada, both on support and working full time. We need to learn budgeting in High School.

[SavenRaven]

Maybe if we got Gail Vaz-Oxlade to do budgeting with High School students it would eliminate some of the issues beforehand.

I know if Gail came to me, she would want us to cut out our internet/phone/cable, and maybe get rid of our three cats and move into a cheaper apartment. We both work but stuggle with finances (our bills are paid each month but there is very little left over).

I really think budgeting is an issue for many people within Canada, both on support and working full time. We need to learn budgeting in High School.

This is a great idea! Better teach it in elementary and middle school as well. This way those who don't make it to high school will still benefit.

[thriftygranny]

Here I go again throwing myself into dangerous waters but here I go.

I have two daughters that work in the social system and believe me they earn their money. I never hear from either of them about the clients abusing of the system . What I hear from them is the heartbreaking stories of young mothers trying to do the best they can and struggling. The man who is deaf who no one will hire. The middle aged man who's wife left him and he can't fight his way out of depression to make enough to support himself and pay support. The aboriginal woman who was raised by an alcoholic mother and father and has fought to educate herself and get away from the poison of the reservation.

I believe the hard addicts in my city do not collect welfare because most of them have no fixed address, they live in wooded areas in tents or boxes and use non government sponsored shelters in our cold winters. Usually funded by churches. My mother in law volunteered up until she was 72 once a week at one of these shelters that do not have to anything to do with your hard earned tax dollars.She was always surprised and how grateful that they had people like her to chat with at two in the morning.She saw and heard a lot.

I just want to say to the people that are so angry that their tax dollars go to this, to please think of the children of these people and how hard it must be to not have a birthday party, new shoes for the first day of school, proper haircut.I even hear the gossipy women at the school I volunteer at whispering about the social assistance kids, some won't even let their kids go to their homes for a play date because they just aren't good enough for them.My family is very comfortable and feel it is our duty to help our community and have fought to teach our children compassion.Because without compassion you are not much of a person. Yes our taxes are very high but such a small portion goes to the social system, I love this country and feel blessed to be part of a Country that takes care of it's own.(And I am happy I clean my own house and can cut my own grass, with what I save there I will be able to bring some more clothes down to the shelters for the upcoming cold Alberta winter.

[thriftygranny]

Maybe if we got Gail Vaz-Oxlade to do budgeting with High School students it would eliminate some of the issues beforehand.

I know if Gail came to me, she would want us to cut out our internet/phone/cable, and maybe get rid of our three cats and move into a cheaper apartment. We both work but stuggle with finances (our bills are paid each month but there is very little left over).

I really think budgeting is an issue for many people within Canada, both on support and working full time. We need to learn budgeting in High School.

This is a brilliant suggestion and a very good point.

[anastasia1009]

A friend of mine who works in a lounge has the same view, he said on welfare day they would always have extra staff on because it was one of their busiest days between the bar and the vlt's.

that is like here OW cheque day the LCBO and Beer store are packed. When I worked as a case worker in NS I would avoid certain places on cheque day cause I always ran into people I gave cheques too. I even had to start driving 20 mins to another NSLC and if I didn't clients would see me and start begging and following me saying they didn't mean to get alcohol.

[Natalka]

Maybe if we got Gail Vaz-Oxlade to do budgeting with High School students it would eliminate some of the issues beforehand.

I know if Gail came to me, she would want us to cut out our internet/phone/cable, and maybe get rid of our three cats and move into a cheaper apartment. We both work but stuggle with finances (our bills are paid each month but there is very little left over).

I really think budgeting is an issue for many people within Canada, both on support and working full time. We need to learn budgeting in High School.

This is a great idea! Better teach it in elementary and middle school as well. This way those who don't make it to high school will still benefit.

Yes, it would be great for schools to do more, but I think it's the responsibility of parents, first and foremost, to do this with and for their children.

[SavenRaven]

I just want to say to the people that are so angry that their tax dollars go to this, to please think of the children of these people and how hard it must be to not have a birthday party, new shoes for the first day of school, proper haircut.I even hear the gossipy women at the school I volunteer at whispering about the social assistance kids, some won't even let their kids go to their homes for a play date because they just aren't good enough for them.

I think about this everyday and it's heartbreaking.

Whether the parents are drinking/smoking/doing drugs or not, THOSE CHILDREN DESERVE BETTER! Is it fair that a child will go without food, clothing and basic needs that are funded by social assistance because a parent chooses cigarettes or beer over the well being of their child?? I will continue to do what I do to help them (the children), regardless, and without judgement.

[anastasia1009]

My husband is required to have drug testing for work because of the high risk factor of his job. Everyone on his crew are at risk when he is operating. People with my husbands position in other companies have had their assistants get killed.... 2 alone this year. Therefore, drug testing is very important.

My friend just got a job like last week at Besybuy and they made him to do a drug test because they said new hires as of September 1st require it. Even when I worked at Walmart it says in the papers you sign you could be drug tested.

[sharkie]

Here I go again throwing myself into dangerous waters but here I go.

I have two daughters that work in the social system and believe me they earn their money. I never hear from either of them about the clients abusing of the system . What I hear from them is the heartbreaking stories of young mothers trying to do the best they can and struggling. The man who is deaf who no one will hire. The middle aged man who's wife left him and he can't fight his way out of depression to make enough to support himself and pay support. The aboriginal woman who was raised by an alcoholic mother and father and has fought to educate herself and get away from the poison of the reservation.

I believe the hard addicts in my city do not collect welfare because most of them have no fixed address, they live in wooded areas in tents or boxes and use non government sponsored shelters in our cold winters. Usually funded by churches. My mother in law volunteered up until she was 72 once a week at one of these shelters that do not have to anything to do with your hard earned tax dollars.She was always surprised and how grateful that they had people like her to chat with at two in the morning.She saw and heard a lot.

I just want to say to the people that are so angry that their tax dollars go to this, to please think of the children of these people and how hard it must be to not have a birthday party, new shoes for the first day of school, proper haircut.I even hear the gossipy women at the school I volunteer at whispering about the social assistance kids, some won't even let their kids go to their homes for a play date because they just aren't good enough for them.My family is very comfortable and feel it is our duty to help our community and have fought to teach our children compassion.Because without compassion you are not much of a person. Yes our taxes are very high but such a small portion goes to the social system, I love this country and feel blessed to be part of a Country that takes care of it's own.(And I am happy I clean my own house and can cut my own grass, with what I save there I will be able to bring some more clothes down to the shelters for the upcoming cold Alberta winter.

Actually I have to correct you on this one...My father was director of a oraganization in hamilton that is a shelter..he worked there up until he passed away....the clients from this organization did in fact receive welfare while there were staying there....it was called a street allowance and it really make me angry they get this....their food and shelter are paid for and yet they get $200 a month on top of that...how is that encouraging them to do better? I do think about the children who are less fortunate and that is why I donate...But I also think of the parents who are not thinking of their children....for instance if you are already struggling on assistance why then go out and have more children?..to me that is abusing the system....I have no problem my tax dollars goiung to help a single mom and her kids...I have a problem though paying for all the other stuff that is not a neccessity...there are many people on there who are living with someone and collecting assistance..to me that is my tax dollars not being well spent...there are many good people on assistance but there are also many abusers of the system and that is what i have a problem with....

[TIMMYS]

Actually I have to correct you on this one...My father was director of a oraganization in hamilton that is a shelter..he worked there up until he passed away....the clients from this organization did in fact receive welfare while there were staying there....it was called a street allowance and it really make me angry they get this....their food and shelter are paid for and yet they get $200 a month on top of that...how is that encouraging them to do better? I do think about the children who are less fortunate and that is why I donate...But I also think of the parents who are not thinking of their children....for instance if you are already struggling on assistance why then go out and have more children?..to me that is abusing the system....I have no problem my tax dollars goiung to help a single mom and her kids...I have a problem though paying for all the other stuff that is not a neccessity...there are many people on there who are living with someone and collecting assistance..to me that is my tax dollars not being well spent...there are many good people on assistance but there are also many abusers of the system and that is what i have a problem with....

Just a polite correction...street allowance is for the truly homeless. Clients in shelter cannot receive Ontario Works funding of any kind as the Ontario works budget pays the shelter directly for their stay. Ontario Works have dedicated shelter workers to monitor the client's so they don't get to stay in the shelter AND get Ontario works

[JennyFromTheRock]

Actually I have to correct you on this one...My father was director of a oraganization in hamilton that is a shelter..he worked there up until he passed away....the clients from this organization did in fact receive welfare while there were staying there....it was called a street allowance and it really make me angry they get this....their food and shelter are paid for and yet they get $200 a month on top of that...how is that encouraging them to do better? I do think about the children who are less fortunate and that is why I donate...But I also think of the parents who are not thinking of their children....for instance if you are already struggling on assistance why then go out and have more children?..to me that is abusing the system....I have no problem my tax dollars goiung to help a single mom and her kids...I have a problem though paying for all the other stuff that is not a neccessity...there are many people on there who are living with someone and collecting assistance..to me that is my tax dollars not being well spent...there are many good people on assistance but there are also many abusers of the system and that is what i have a problem with....

You beat me to it!!! I was about to write that shelters allow street people to use their address to collect welfare. Even though they have no bills and don't have to buy food or clothes. Even residents of the shelters can collect welfare, its called PNA ( personal needs allowance ) although, I seem to feel that in a shelter where everything is provided ( toiletries, medications, food, clothing, lodging and even bus tokens ) are given to them, they don't really need a "personal allowance".