Discuss New Rules for Package Trains & Win a Gift Card :)

[nat77]

TOTALLY did not read all of the chit chat between Pixels and Peachy up there---would not have used Peachy as an example in my above blurb if I had..... **Blush*** Sorry, Peachy, I was not trying to single you out....

[bargain_hunter_lola]

You guys opened this discussion and if you feel as though I am being harsh that is your interpretation of what I am saying. I think what you/BHL/sheets have said have been harsh to me and you all are ganging up on me because I am speaking up.

I am deeply sadden to see that you feel I'm "ganging up" on you in any way.

I thought my posts were diplomatic and respectful, even if my opinions differed from yours.

As my previous post stated, I do think you're a great rider and SC'er. I have no ill will toward you and bear no hard feelings whatsoever.

That being said I will also remove myself from this thread. My intentions were never to hurt or harm in any way. I simply wanted to shed light from a different angle and give constructive criticism in a mature, diplomatic way.

[sheetsofemptycanvas]

I'm sorry if you felt attacked, Peachy, but can you show me exactly where and how I or anyone ganged up on you?

I've kept my mouth shut, for the most part, because my opinion on the matter most likely differs from others and I would rather not get flamed for it. Where did I say anything that had anything to do with any post you made?

I apologize if anything that I said was taken in the wrong way, I never intended to hurt anyone's feelings and I kind of resent the fact that it was implied

[pumpkin9211]

I am so glad that you feel the need to giggle that someone has to come to the admins because their voice is not being heard

Jezz and I decided to discuss this on the forum because we did not want Boo to say the trains are not worth it and people do want change - but the harshness of some of the posts here mean the people who complained won't even speak up on the forum because of the cliqueyness (and there are cliques, we all know it) and past experiences getting on the wrong side of those cliques

Do you know there are members who won't post in this thread because they are worried about the backlash to the point that one said "they have my address"

We get complaints that there are kid trains so people can't join, we suggest having two different smaller trains running with different themes and someone else complains that they are excluded from the second one - we can't win. But I will not have members feel bullied to the point they will not even trade with members

It seems that the regulars like the way things run, and have set the rules the way they like, but there are unhappy people - and they could become regulars given a chance, but a lot of this harshness is scaring them away. It is not necessary to post 35 times, but you will probably find that they will actually post more if not forced to with the threat of being put on a consequence list for only hitting 34 when others (as peachy mentioned she did) get away with other rule breaking

As it happens, the person who lodged the complaint just contacted me saying she will no longer be visiting SC, she prefers to be a part of a site that will actually work together to what works for all - that is not something I giggle at

Fallen,

I giggled. Out loud.

I do think a "formal complaint" regarding package trains is funny.

I didn't giggle because someone was bullied. In fact, that saddens me that people won’t comment because "someone has their address". Geez, why would that matter? Adults have discussions all the time. Adults disagree.

It is clear that you and I disagree as to what is funny. Do I think you will be unfair to me…nope! And, I sure hope you realise that I will not hold a grudge regarding this.

I’m guessing you put me in the category as a “regular riders” and I thought I would share that I think some of the rules need to change. And, I’m not sure if you are aware but a few times “my ideas/likes” were outvoted but I would always say to Jez- I will support & follow the decisions that are best for the package trains.

As for her quote “she will no longer be visiting SC, she prefers to be a part of a site that will actually work together to what works for all”- she really didn’t give you a chance to change the package trains. And, in my opinion, that in itself is a form of bullying.

I sincerely hope you were able to change her mind and keep her on SC. There is so much more to SC than package trains.

Good luck with all the changes Fallen!!! Hope you can make everyone happy

[FallenPixels]

There is more going on than people can see though, there are people who have raised points before getting PMs accusing them of being the person I spoke of (which if the people bothered to read my post, she had not rode package trains so not raised issues in the trains before)

Peachy, I am not banning anyone for raising an opinion, there are plenty of opinionated people on SC and not one has been banned. No mod can ban a member unless it is just a spammer or a multiple account without Boo's approval anyway. I don't think any of us meant to make you feel ganged up on and I am sorry if you do, I was merely responding to your posts and then answering your question of where I took my opinion from on your post. But there are people who feel you (and others) do the same to them - likely without you realizing it too.

It saddens me that these people do not want to post publicly too, but given the fact I have seen some of the PMs people send each other over other matters on SC, I am not surprised that people no longer want to post publicly about issues where the more popular cliques have an opinion. But I did promise them I would not reveal who they are and I will stick to that.

This was meant to be a discussion of how we can change things for the greater good of everyone, instead we are all just bickering saying stuff won't work without trying it - why not give it a try, yes some things didn't work a while back, but the membership has changed and maybe the economy has too. We want opinions on what we can try to make things work for everyone, the fact is we want to make changes to make it better. If something doesn't work we can say to the people we tried it and it didn't work - but not trying is what is upsetting these other members

[K8's Fate]

I find it extremely confusing to hear selective bits and pieces of what's going on in pm's, and then be expected not to offend people by expressing your opinion on pkg trains. Especially not even knowing what their complaint is.

Also, the term "clique" in my opinion is unnecessary.

There is a close circle of riders that have formed tight bonds over joy, sorrow, loss, gifts, and struggles in their lives. They are always welcoming of others (me included) and I think it is unnecessary calling this friendship a "clique." I would certainly get my back up, if my friendships on SC were being referred to as cliques.

[PammieD]

The problem with a poll is last time we ran one certain members made new accounts to vote and push the poll the way they wanted, the only way we can stop that is making it public and people are already worried about the fallback of posting publicly

Perhaps the question we need to ask now is what needs to been done to make things right for the people involved who have been hurt? I feel fairly non-partisan and have watched this friendly thread change tones. Is there enough info to revise the rules and see how it goes? Fromm viewpoint the rule changes seemed to make it so there was something for everyone's preference and always the option to decline. There will always be problems here and there but ppl willing to help. For e.g. I told Holly if a package was not sent for the Xmas exchange she could call on me.

Hello! My name is Natalie and I am addicted to package trains! ((I'm so sorry I couldn't join Chesterjes' Pampered fella's train--but I couldn't create a list with more than 4 or 5 items for my man without adding things like bubble bath or mascara.... DH would NOT have been impressed with that sort of package ))

Anyway, I love the fact that Jez took the initiative to start this thread... HOWEVER, I think it's getting a little out of hand. There's a kazillion SC'ers on this site and we're never, ever, ever going to agree on the perfect way to conduct a package train.

I think the best way to accommodate everyone is to just have a variety of package trains. Let's say Peachy likes larger, no-limit-type trains... then she would host one like that. Then another month, a different conductor would host a 12-person, $15-limit train.... or even during the same month.

If you haven't seen the type of train you would like to join posted, then volunteer to conduct one---it's not so bad, really, I only broke down and cried twice during the last one.

I actually think it would be great to join a variety of different package trains and have different challenges to come up with the perfect package for my buddy each time---it makes it more interesting.

Can't we all just get along?!? *sigh* I feel like we all need a group hug and to sing "we are the world" by "various artists"...(I've been sotting in a car for over 8 hours today...there has been A LOT of music....)

Perhaps, as others have said, we can focus more on solutions to what types of "tweaks" would be good to the package trains, and get off the topic of bullying etc. I have ridden plenty of trains with all of the SC'rs that have been actively posting and I truly don't believe anyone is targeting or intending to single out anyone else. I will say this: a package train can't be everything to everyone. And you can't appease everyone at all times. I definitely have come to love package trains, and am starting to feel that I could be considered a "regular", but that's because that's the way I think of myself. I have actually only ridden 3 of these trains! I still check in and stalk the thread a little when I'm not riding, as I know many do. I have also noticed a vast difference in the riders from train to train. While there are definitely riders that have been on every train, there are also prominent "regulars" that haven't for reasons like work, school, family commitments etc. It's just the way it goes. I think that while the odd person has a rough experience from time to time, the majority of riders would say they have a positive experience and that they would ride again when "life" allows.

I'd like to articulate a couple of the suggestions of "tweaks" that have been pretty much been beaten to a pulp in this thread:
- multiple trains can be conducted at any given time, HOWEVER, any one rider can only be committed to sending ONE package at a time. Package must be received and verified to meet the rules of the train before they can board another one.
- riders are required to post at least 10 times during the train duration, however conductors can choose to increase this minimum post number depending on the duration of the train. (Example of what I mean, is that if there are 4 weeks to mail date, I don't think it's unreasonable to require 15 posts - about 4 posts a week).
- conductors can propose a theme for their thread and determine how many riders they want to allow (10, 20, unlimited etc) based on how many people they think they can manage, whether there is a max "limit" to the dollar amount to be spent, what the minimim number of items are etc.
- Rider spots will not be "reserved" by the conductor for riders in advance of it opening for boarding (allowing everyone a fair chance to board...I can see a possible problem where on a train with limited seats, reserving a spot for someone would possibly leave less of a chance for less frequent riders)

[MeShell]

Can't we all just get along?!? *sigh* I feel like we all need a group hug and to sing "we are the world" by "various artists"...(I've been sotting in a car for over 8 hours today...there has been A LOT of music....)

LOL Pammie

I think what's said has been said and I highly doubt anyone that hasn't commented yet is going to come forward with any more concerns after how the thread has turned lately, so maybe it's time to just end the discussion. Jez, Fallen and whoever to read the whole thread over again and make the final decisions on what changes need to be made and what new ideas we have (aka the shoebox train!) and let's go from there. I think most of us can agree that 10 posts minimum is very reasonable and that majority of the people would like to see some variety or the possibility of two trains going at once so people have options to ride. (aka...a pet train going....i don't have pets but maybe at that time, there's a shoebox or challenge train running that i could ride instead) Like I said, for the next while, you could have a requirement that all riders have to submit a small feedback survey at the end of each train so that you can continue to receive feedback or hear of any concerns that come up with the new changes and that way, it's a private message to Jez (or whoever) so no one should feel worried to voice their opinions.

Even though I would still be considered somewhat "new" to the package train world, I already feel partly like a "regular" because I chat so much on the pkg train threads. I'm not currently riding due to paying off a loan and giving birth to baby#2 soon, but I really really look forward to when I can be back to riding package trains. I totally appreciate the hard work Fallen and Jez do, it cannot be an easy job at all, we ALL can agree that you two can't please everyone, so make the changes and we will just have to give it a try and deal with it!

[Bronwen]

Hmm thank you for those who clarified some of the reasoning behind not setting a limit. I had never thought of many of these reasons and I can see now why setting a limit is really difficult.

[KK7]

wow I came to check in here and I don't even know what happen I think I am just going to slowly creep out

[Bronwen]

wow I came to check in here and I don't even know what happen I think I am just going to slowly creep out

Hahahaha

[shawlightning]

Just my humble opinion but, I think we have now moved into territory that there may be no way back. Tempers are heated, feelings are hurt, this does not reflect what package trains are about or what SC promotes.

I know polls have been held before regarding these issues and perhaps it is a better solution. Polls do not leave room for interpretation or misinterpretation. How one person reads a comment can be vastly different than another.

Hello! My name is Natalie and I am addicted to package trains! ((I'm so sorry I couldn't join Chesterjes' Pampered fella's train--but I couldn't create a list with more than 4 or 5 items for my man without adding things like bubble bath or mascara.... DH would NOT have been impressed with that sort of package ))

Anyway, I love the fact that Jez took the initiative to start this thread... HOWEVER, I think it's getting a little out of hand. There's a kazillion SC'ers on this site and we're never, ever, ever going to agree on the perfect way to conduct a package train.

I think the best way to accommodate everyone is to just have a variety of package trains. Let's say Peachy likes larger, no-limit-type trains... then she would host one like that. Then another month, a different conductor would host a 12-person, $15-limit train.... or even during the same month.

If you haven't seen the type of train you would like to join posted, then volunteer to conduct one---it's not so bad, really, I only broke down and cried twice during the last one.

I actually think it would be great to join a variety of different package trains and have different challenges to come up with the perfect package for my buddy each time---it makes it more interesting.

I couldn't agree more with these 2 lovely ladies! well said by both of you!!

all i have to say is...........

1.. this thread is getting out of hand. what started out as looking for constructive criticism has turned into......well, i don't know
2.. i have always been welcomed with open arms in every train i have been on as a newbie but also as a seasoned rider
3.. before doing my first package train, i was timid and scared, but i jumped in and had a blast. you just gotta do it!

and last but not least.......

4.. Jez, you are doing an amazing job!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KK7]

couldn't help not post this ; )

[Armygirl76]

This makes me very sad. Package trains are amazing not for what I receive but for the people I have met and will meet. It hurts my heart that people feel bullied because even when I was a newbie I never felt anything but welcome. From a personal stand I just returned home from a very horrible stint in the hospital in the US to my pampered pkg and I will tell you it wouldn't have matter what was in it, but that at a very low time someone I have never met went out spend time and whatever amount to bring joy to me. If the rules have to change then I understand but what I hope never changes is the ability for the length of the train to wake up every morning to a group of ladies and gents who are open and caring. If you feel scared or outside the clique? Please just give it a chance this can be so much more than a train.

ps Jezebel you are amazing!

[Angela273]

I only stopped into this thread today, and am not enjoying what I have read. I am reluctant to post in this thread because of the conversations that are taking place, so I will keep it brief.

I previously participated in and even ran regular trains. After having some of my trains de-railed and issues with riders, I have not run any trains since. I have not been a passenger on the train in about as long because I sometimes find the postage to be more expensive than the actual coupons that I find useful on these trains. I even had someone threaten to give me a negative rating because they were not happy with the variety of coupons on a baby train that I once ran (before I had my LO).

As for package trains, I have not participated in any. I find that there is a lot of pressure put on people to create awesome and brag worthy packages for their buddy. There are risks involved in participating in trains and package trains, hoping that you will receive something as great as you send. Package trains are also a lot of work, and sometimes need to have the information provided to the riders earlier on so that they have more time to put together a package, while still having the opportunity to be cost effective at the same time. I have many questions regarding package trains themselves, but I will keep them to myself until I read the updated guidelines. My husband works for Purolator, so I would be able to ship the packages for a slightly reduced rate...if I decide to participate in the future.