US Ambassador "killed in Libya"

[Darth Penguin]

Doesn't that justify all this killing? I don't get passionate about political stuff, but I do get rather riled up when 'Freedom' is blamed as the culprit for provoking other people to commit violent acts.

It equally riles me up when the very people who do risky jobs to protect those freedoms are scorned and attacked for doing it.

Obama killed Osama and we love Obama, but we still despise the CIA, Navy, Border Agents, State Department Operatives etc etc who actually put themselves at risk to do the job.

The stupid youtube video is not what caused all this violence.

OK my rant is over. One day that rant could be a crime which would make me a criminal and an outlaw. Love me while you can.

Given that the video was produced to inflame Muslims then I disagree with you. It was a deliberate act created with malice aforethought and the video was released to a place where any number of people were able to see it.

Now, I'm sure not every-one who is or has been demonstrating has seen it. And I'm sure that a lot of the talk about it is false information either accidently or deliberately spread though a modern day game of Chinese Whispers.

Freedom of speech doesn't absolve (general) you of the actions and reactions that your speech causes. Nor does it oblige me to listen.

[Andit]

Given that the video was produced to inflame Muslims then I disagree with you. It was a deliberate act created with malice aforethought and the video was released to a place where any number of people were able to see it.

Now, I'm sure not every-one who is or has been demonstrating has seen it. And I'm sure that a lot of the talk about it is false information either accidently or deliberately spread though a modern day game of Chinese Whispers.

Freedom of speech doesn't absolve (general) you of the actions and reactions that your speech causes. Nor does it oblige me to listen.

So, by this reasoning, it is perfectly acceptable to question/praise/villify/parody a religion/belief *unless* some extremists murder someone. Why is it that when a few Catholics complained about Martin Scorsese's film (Last Temptation), they were told to lump it if they didn't like it, & Scorsese was certainly not marginalized by Hollywood? There was a none-too-flattering portrayal of a Catholic that won an award at a recent film festival - you don't see rioting at the Vatican.

Sigh. I find it just so sad that a stupid film is to be blamed rather than the individuals involved in the atrocities.

[Darth Penguin]

So, by this reasoning, it is perfectly acceptable to question/praise/villify/parody a religion/belief *unless* some extremists murder someone. Why is it that when a few Catholics complained about Martin Scorsese's film (Last Temptation), they were told to lump it if they didn't like it, & Scorsese was certainly not marginalized by Hollywood? There was a none-too-flattering portrayal of a Catholic that won an award at a recent film festival - you don't see rioting at the Vatican.

Sigh. I find it just so sad that a stupid film is to be blamed rather than the individuals involved in the atrocities.

Were those films deliberately made with the intent to inflame an already fraught situation? I doubt it...

The film-maker went out of his way to taunt over 1 billion people , many of whom are fuctionally illiterate and therfore rely on other people to impart news to them.

I am in NO WAY saying that the people involved in the rioting, destruction and deaths shouldn't shoulder the blame for thier actions. They should and in a more equal society, they would. However blasphemy laws in in many of those countries will probably protect them with respect to their actions.

The blame is 50:50 . Some-one went out of his way to be as offensive as possible and a vocal minority used it as an excuse to show how...passionate?/pious?/mad?/riot for the sake of it? over this POC movie.

The Last Temptation of Christ may or may not have had some artistic merit, I don't know...I have never seen it. and I doubt if I will ever see Paradise:Faith either. Mainly because the subject matter of the latter doesn't appeal to me.

Had some people decided to demonstrate outside the Austrian embassies due to the movie and attack it and kill/be killed in order to demonstrate their protectiveness of their faith, I would be of the same opinion. The film was the cause of a very small minority of the faith acting out in dangerous ways. The film-maker bears a responsiblity towards every reaction, negative or positive, his movie provokes. Especially when he deliberatly makes a movie that provokes and then boasts about the reaction being what he wanted.

You can't walk up to and poke a lion with a pointed stick many times and expect to walk away unscathed.

There's a lot of talk on some American ultra-right wing, Christain boards about this movie, gloating as to how this has showm Muslims in their true light as godless savages and calling on US voters to vote against the muslin(sic) Obama...

[Andit]

But isn't *all* "art" meant to provoke? This weekend we had Nuit Blanche in Toronto, essentially a series of art installations all through the downtown core. Some pieces were interesting, some left me wondering WTH. Heck, I was out with the cat in my purse, & I even had some naif come up & ask whether I was an "artist" (uh, yeah, "cat in a bag" is my latest creation ). My personal taste doesn't give me any right to destroy a work of "art".

By this logic, we should now ban classic literary works. Hunchback of Notre Dame portrays a member of the clergy in a bad light, so no more Victor Hugo in the library. Heck. better take that raunchy Disney flick off the market & get those kids into counselling.

Sigh. I'm just sick of so many shirking responsibility for their actions & always blaming someone/thing for their bad behaviour.

I think I'm just overly sensitive these days - I spent the last couple of weeks watching The Crucible & The Royal Comedians, where religious beliefs destroy lives.

[Patty Smyth]

Doesn't that justify all this killing? I don't get passionate about political stuff, but I do get rather riled up when 'Freedom' is blamed as the culprit for provoking other people to commit violent acts.

It equally riles me up when the very people who do risky jobs to protect those freedoms are scorned and attacked for doing it.

Obama killed Osama and we love Obama, but we still despise the CIA, Navy, Border Agents, State Department Operatives etc etc who actually put themselves at risk to do the job.

The stupid youtube video is not what caused all this violence.

OK my rant is over. One day that rant could be a crime which would make me a criminal and an outlaw. Love me while you can.

Do you really think there is such a hatred for those who put their lives ont the line for Canada and the U.S.? I know that police, border guards etc. can be threatening and sometimes abuse their power but I have been crossing the border for over 40 years and have found that although the last 10 years have been more stressful they have been nothing but professional. I would not like to do their job nor bare the responsibility of who I let in and out of the country knowing that I could let someone slip through that could do harm.

I applaud them because frankly I would not put on a uniform to defend this country and not because I don't love it , it's just not in me to do that.

I agree with you that it's not the video that caused the initial attack. I believe it was a planned 9/11 retaliation.

Was the video release coincidence? Probaby the video was scheduled to be realeased on that "day of days" but were they in cohoots with the terror attack on the embassy. No I don't think so. But what do I know eh?

[Darth Penguin]

British Muslims protest "age of mockery" as thousands descend on Google HQ

Anger over 'The Innocence of Muslims', an American-produced film which insults the Prophet Mohammad and demeans Muslims, according to protesters, remains available to watch on the website YouTube, a subsidiary of Google.

Organiser Masoud Alam said: "Our next protest will be at the offices of Google and YouTube across the world. We are looking to ban this film.

[DaveP]

British Muslims protest "age of mockery" as thousands descend on Google HQ

Why are we allowing these people to emigrate to our lands if they are unwilling to embrace our values? Free speech being one of them, even if free speech means morons like the ones who made this movie can speak too.



Guy speaks truth.

[Darth Penguin]

Hillary Clinton takes responsibility for Libya embassy attack

Hillary Clinton has taken responsibility for the deadly security breach at the US diplomatic mission in Benghazi, saying the buck stopped with her and not the White House.
The secretary of state took the blame in an interview to CNN on Monday night in what will be seen as an attempt to deflect Republican attacks on Barack Obama over the affair on the eve of the second presidential debate.
"I take responsibility," she said in Lima, Peru, in her first interview about the 11 September attack that killed the US ambassador to Libya, Chris Stevens, and three other Americans.
"I'm in charge of the state department's 60,000-plus people all over the world [at] 275 posts. The president and the vice-president wouldn't be knowledgeable about specific decisions that are made by security professionals [who are] the ones who weigh all of the threats and the risks and the needs and make a considered decision."

[gryphon]

I was sent this by my brother

http://lettingfreedomring.com/tag/na...seley-nakoula/

By Walid Shoebat via Iran Aware

There is more to the story of Nakoula Basseley Nakoula than what we are told by the media. Court documents reveal that Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, producer of the movie Innocence of Muslims, partnered in a scheme with Eiad Salameh, my first cousin, a Palestinian Muslim from Beit Sahour in the Palestinian district of Bethlehem.

To prove my claim, I revealed Eiad Salameh long before this whole fiasco erupted—in 2008 and the first real reportage of Eiad and Nakoula was revealed on September 14th, 2012.

Now do I have your attention?

The narrative that circulates the media fails to answer crucial questions behind the mystery of this film.

For example, to date, no one has stepped forward or can confirm for certain that whoever holds an identity by the name of Nakoula Basseley Nakoula is that man’s true identity. In the Middle East, if a man by the name of Nakoula Basseley Nakoula indeed exists while being blamed for creating a mess of international proportions—which included the anger of over one billion Muslims—it would not be that difficult to find the entire family in Egypt, including brothers, cousins, aunts, siblings wife, wives, ex-wives, mistresses, pets and all.

In the Middle East, no one can hide. Egypt is where the demonstrations that have taken place all over the Middle East and Asia were sparked. Yet, it cannot produce this man’s background?

Besides, why would Nakoula, who claims to be a religious Coptic activist, have extensive connections with Eiad? My cousin hated Copts with a passion and is well-known in the Middle East as a master schemer, probably one of the best the Middle East has produced. He also has multiple contacts with terror networks.

Eiad is from Beit Sahour, Bethlehem. He is a dubious individual who was well known in the Arab community as the main contact for obtaining authentic, legitimate identifications from passports to credit cards, under many nationalities. He then places these identifications into the hands of dubious characters whose names are not the names written on the passports.

Eiad is a Muslim terror supporter and is not an Egyptian Copt. Both my cousin Eiad and whoever this man is who pretends to be Nakoula, had multiple, fraudulent identifications and the two connected for a decade in multiple scheming operations—the type that usually links to terrorism.

The Daily Beast reported regarding Nakoula’s bust:

The bust came around the time the feds were launching Operation Mountain Express, which would become a huge investigation into pseudoephedrine-dealing involving numerous people of a Middle Eastern background. The authorities initially insisted there were no links to terrorism, but suddenly switched and decided that a chunk of the money was going to Hizbullah.

Eiad, like Nakoula, portrayed and identified himself as an Israeli Jew, a thing Eiad did for years. He even fraudulently holds an authentic Israeli passport.

No one knows for certain that Nakoula is even who he claims to be, but we are 100% certain that both my cousin Eiad and Nakoula had multiple fraudulent identifications and what has never been disclosed until now is that the two were linked for at least a decade.

First of all, clan Nakoula also exists in Eiad’s village Beit Sahour Bethlehem. It is still the little town of Bethlehem, just as it was in Biblical times.

The feds are also silent and have kept much of this issue away from public view. Despite Nakoula’s previous offenses, the Justice Department lawyers and federal agents defended him, giving several excuses to Judge Snyder and pushed for leniency, all because of him supposedly promising to help them catch Eiad.

Via the sentencing transcript:

…he [Nakoula] has implicated Mr. Salamay [aka Salameh] there is no question that Mr. Salamay at some point is gonna be indicted if he hasn’t already been… we all know what’s gonna happen. Salamay is gonna get arrested some day and based on the debriefing information turned over he is gonna enter a guilty plea, or if he doesn’t, then Mr. Nakoula is going to be called in to testify…

This claim by the Feds is false.

If the feds were indeed interested in catching Eiad, he was in fact doing his shenanigans for three decades without a single arrest and despite several arrest warrants issued.

He was in fact finally locked up in January 2011 in Canada as we were told by our contact out of the Intelligence Bureau in Canada (IBC) who wrote us by email (which we have the evidence).

While the Canadians wanted to keep Eiad in custody as long as it took and were working with the Feds to extradite him to the United States, the U.S. preferred not to bring Eiad in to face justice. Instead, they asked the Canadians to fly him to freedom in Palestine.

I received my last email from my contact on July 15th, 2011, which stated: “He is awaiting deportation to Palestine, unless the US hurry up and indict him…” The feds never responded to the Canadian’s last appeal and within a few days, Eiad was put on a plane, courtesy of the Canadian taxpayers.

Where did he go?

Palestine.

The Palestinian terror connection to this film increases once we learned that Nakoula used Eiad’s last name “Erwin Salameh” portraying himself as his brother. As we also obtained from our contact in the IBC, Eiad was also involved with someone having the last name “Tanas” as late as 2011 and Nakoula had used the name “Thomas J. Tanas”.

In addition, the naming convention used by Nakoula in 2009 looks remarkably similar to one of Eiad’s embezzlement operations in 2000.

Nakoula used a fictitious company called M & A Trading in 2009, which he simply switched from Eiad’s A & M Trading as revealed in the U.S. Trustee report in 2001.

I can provide much evidence privately to reliable media, on the condition that the names of the agents remain anonymous (as per their request) but I have disclosed Eiad in all of my seminars to hundreds of FBI agents and police force.

Full Report Here.

So who is this man behind the film Innocence of Muslims?

To identify his motives, I then obtained a radio interview in Arabic that this supposed Nakoula gave in which he stated that he is not Christian but a secular liberal. He was asked, “What is your position on the Jewish and the Christian faith?” Nakoula responded, “I have no calling for these religions.”

Nakoula, who stated that he was an author of several books on Islam (written in Arabic) refused to give his name to the interviewer. Yet, if court documents give his legal name as Nakoula Bacile/Bassele Nakoula, I found no books under that name. Nothing. And neither did anyone produce them.

Nakoula was lying again and is no Coptic author.

A court document refers to a letter from a friend who referred to Nakoula as “a God-fearing man whose first priority is his family.”

This contradicts what he said in Arabic; he is not interested in Christianity or Judaism and is possibly a Muslim.

Nakoula claimed that he produced the film with his son, Abanob Basseley, and the money for it (between $50,000 and $60,000) came from his wife’s family in Egypt.

None of this has been proven.

What has been proven is that he embezzled millions with Eiad and the money must have come from these scandalous operations, which are usually linked to terrorist activity.

Why would any anti-Islam Christian or even Jewish activist want the destruction of his own? It makes zero sense, unless of course this person intends to do harm to his real enemies—Israel and the Copts.

Both are Eiad’s ardent enemies.

How is it possible that these two would snuggle up together for a decade?

On one hand, we have a Meth-dealer-Egyptian-Coptic-anti-Muslim-activist-fundamentalist-Christian. Then on the other hand, we have a Muslim-fundamentalist-Palestinian-scam-artist-terrorist.

[Patty Smyth]

Why are we allowing these people to emigrate to our lands if they are unwilling to embrace our values? Free speech being one of them, even if free speech means morons like the ones who made this movie can speak too.



Guy speaks truth.

He is right. Religion needs to be exposed, criticized, scrutinzed for what is has become.

[anisa]

Why are we allowing these people to emigrate to our lands if they are unwilling to embrace our values? Free speech being one of them, even if free speech means morons like the ones who made this movie can speak too.



Guy speaks truth.

it was ok for white eurapeans to infiltrate, colonize and brutalize these ppl while stealing their resources and enslaving their ppl?

try and figure out why these ppl speak english and french in their homelands. eat french, italian, dutch and portugese foods.

they are only worthy of being enslaved, used and abused and then imported for cheap labour, right?

how dare they protest modern wars and invasions. how dare they demand basic respects. how dare they get tired and frustrated with foreign interference and then complete inaction when cooperation and respect are required.

'those ppl' are sick and tired.

[anisa]

I am sorry, but Muslims have no interest in what that racist a$$ is spewing.

have you been to these european countries that have spewing this s#it the past few years.

nazi jerkoffs are increasing in number and influence

racist propoganda is everywhere

they don't speak truths of any kind

they just feed the public what they have already assumed about Muslims.

congratulations for being sucked into that circle

[Darth Penguin]

tell me about it...my 2 nephews spew out a whole load of racist crap which is neo-nazi at best and even more extreme at worst.

Just got to love the way that Mp misses the whole of the pre 20th centuary in Europe when Christian nations acted like that. Enforced religion, child-brides, no rights for women, gayz or people of colour...Not to mention if you were the wrong religion....

It's not that long ago* that rental housing had " No children, no dogs, no Irish and no blacks** or Pakis" in the UK.

* I saw those signs in the early 1970's..

** makes me laugh because you can find Roman legion postings and land deeds for legioneers from North Africa who retired to Albion after their martial service. Many families may be descendants of those soldiers.

[DaveP]

Okay, you don't like the European right wing guy, so let's go with a (very) left wing American.



You know, when left and right agree there is probably something to it.

[Darth Penguin]

Got the message...
I'm the scum of the earth for moving outta my country..yadda yadda...wanting to keep my own traditions...speak my own language...
worship how I want to....