Re-Election wanted!

[Natalka]

I actually did some detective work because I haven't seen any "headlines" on the news anywhere and Elections Canada is up to 5199 verified misleading Robo-calls. Here is the article dated yesterday.

That is not an Elections Canada figure.

"Elections Canada revealed Thursday it has received more than specific 700 complaints from Canadians over possible fraudulent calls during last year’s federal election."
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03...out-robocalls/


http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/p...omplaints?bn=1




A far cry from the 31k, which seem to be mostly online form letters submitted, such as those from the site you had previously posted.

[Patty Smyth]

All right, it was me. I did it because I hate Lefties!

[Patty Smyth]

[DH666]

Where can I get one of those? I'm a leftie all the way.

[TaraF]

Natalka, as far as I understand they are Elections Canadas figures but further into the week and further into the investigation. On March 15, 700 verified were reported and by March 17 5199 verified had been reported. Either way, it has been verified that these calls were sent out by someone, to many people and while in the "big scheme of things" it may not have affected the over all vote results it was still an Illegal act and as such a new election should be called.

[DaveP]

Natalka, as far as I understand they are Elections Canadas figures but further into the week and further into the investigation. On March 15, 700 verified were reported and by March 17 5199 verified had been reported. Either way, it has been verified that these calls were sent out by someone, to many people and while in the "big scheme of things" it may not have affected the over all vote results it was still an Illegal act and as such a new election should be called.

Seems a huge expense to have an election that will likely just end up with more or less the same result. Well, lib and bloc gains, NDP losses and still a Tory majority.

Besides, who decides to call the election? Who makes that decision? The PM? The Opposition? Elections Canada? The Governor General? Who? Maybe we should have a national plebiscite: Election, yes or no? I'm willing to bet the majority of Canadians will say no. Most of us, regardless of party, are sick of elections considering how many we've had in the last decade. JMHO.

[TaraF]

Dave, while it may seem like a huge expense, I believe it's incredibly critical at this point of the game since hundreds if not thousands of accounts have been verified and it truly rocks the core of our Democracy that someone tried to manipulate the vote in such a manner and on such a large scale. As for the results being the same, we don't know that for sure. I need to find the article I'm thinking of so that i can reference it but I beleive the Harper Government holds a Majority by only 6000-7000 votes, so those who were misdirected and never able to vote, or those that gave up trying to find their polling station, if they were not going to vote conservative could indeed have impacted a Minority vs Majority Government, but we'll never know that unless a new Election is called. But that truly in my opinion is neither here nor there.

If we let anyone get away with trying to manipulate our votes on such a grand scale we may as well kiss our democracy goodbye and I don't say that as a Non fan of Harper, I say that because Illegal activity took place by someone and if we allow Elections to run in that manner it's a slippery slope. I think what bothers me is the fact that alot of people are shrugging this "robo-call" scandal off as nothing major when it is that and so much more. To say it isn't would be like saying, "Well Bobby only stole a candy bar from the corner store and since it wasn't a large item and didn't cause the stores bottom line to be effected let's just acknowledge it was wrong but move on. But Mark over there stole a car and since it's worth a big chunk of the car lots revenu he should be held accountable for it." It comes down to no matter what party you support, no matter what party or person(s) is found responsible of this injustice, and that's exactly what it is, that as Canadians we all should be holding said person(s) accountable to the fullest extent of the law. And if we truly live in a Democratic Society than a new Election should take place in order to right the wrong that someone made to the tune of Illegal actions in a Federal Election.

I know there is voter fatigue but my opinion is that if Canadians can't get off of their asses to vote in a new Election that is brought on due to someone somewhere undermining their democratic right to vote than they deserve to live in a society that doesn't believe in a Democratic rule. And that truly saddens me. I wish people would look at it in a personal manner and wonder how they'd feel if they were mislead and couldn't exercise their right to vote because right now it's "just someone else it happened to" and doesn't personally affect us but I'm sure most here would be livid if they hadn't been able to vote due to this.

You do make some good points as well as to who would call an election and that would I assume depend on who is found responsible of the robo calls. I have no idea how much Power/Authority Elections Canada has but I suspect that it isn't much lol If it is found out that it was the Harper Government than I would think not only the opposition would call for a new one but depending on where the blame fell as I stated before can desolve the Conservative party as we know it. It's definately not a clear cut issue of how to go about things but it's most definately an important one.

[TaraF]

Oops. I only hit the button once and it posted twice so I deleted this post. See above post.

[erin9mmm]

.... so those who were misdirected and never able to vote, or those that gave up trying to find their polling station, if they were not going to vote conservative could indeed have impacted a Minority vs Majority Government, but we'll never know that unless a new Election is called. But that truly in my opinion is neither here nor there.

The opinion poles taken before the election showed pretty much the same results that we got. So this robo scandal I doubt made any significant impact. Also out of those calls who was actually going to vote in the first place, who were they going to vote for? We may have lost more conservative votes. And just because one phone call was intentionally misleading does that mean they are not smart enough to find the right polling station anyways? What if they never received the call at all, would they not have voted? I know if I had received a call it wouldn't have made a difference.
Do I want a new election - NO.
Do I think the person(s) involved should be held accountable - YES
I do think though that some are using this as just another excuse to try to get the conservatives out just because they don't like them.

[DH666]

Dave, while it may seem like a huge expense, I believe it's incredibly critical at this point of the game since hundreds if not thousands of accounts have been verified and it truly rocks the core of our Democracy that someone tried to manipulate the vote in such a manner and on such a large scale. As for the results being the same, we don't know that for sure. I need to find the article I'm thinking of so that i can reference it but I beleive the Harper Government holds a Majority by only 6000-7000 votes, so those who were misdirected and never able to vote, or those that gave up trying to find their polling station, if they were not going to vote conservative could indeed have impacted a Minority vs Majority Government, but we'll never know that unless a new Election is called. But that truly in my opinion is neither here nor there.

If we let anyone get away with trying to manipulate our votes on such a grand scale we may as well kiss our democracy goodbye and I don't say that as a Non fan of Harper, I say that because Illegal activity took place by someone and if we allow Elections to run in that manner it's a slippery slope. I think what bothers me is the fact that alot of people are shrugging this "robo-call" scandal off as nothing major when it is that and so much more. To say it isn't would be like saying, "Well Bobby only stole a candy bar from the corner store and since it wasn't a large item and didn't cause the stores bottom line to be effected let's just acknowledge it was wrong but move on. But Mark over there stole a car and since it's worth a big chunk of the car lots revenu he should be held accountable for it." It comes down to no matter what party you support, no matter what party or person(s) is found responsible of this injustice, and that's exactly what it is, that as Canadians we all should be holding said person(s) accountable to the fullest extent of the law. And if we truly live in a Democratic Society than a new Election should take place in order to right the wrong that someone made to the tune of Illegal actions in a Federal Election.

I know there is voter fatigue but my opinion is that if Canadians can't get off of their asses to vote in a new Election that is brought on due to someone somewhere undermining their democratic right to vote than they deserve to live in a society that doesn't believe in a Democratic rule. And that truly saddens me. I wish people would look at it in a personal manner and wonder how they'd feel if they were mislead and couldn't exercise their right to vote because right now it's "just someone else it happened to" and doesn't personally affect us but I'm sure most here would be livid if they hadn't been able to vote due to this.

You do make some good points as well as to who would call an election and that would I assume depend on who is found responsible of the robo calls. I have no idea how much Power/Authority Elections Canada has but I suspect that it isn't much lol If it is found out that it was the Harper Government than I would think not only the opposition would call for a new one but depending on where the blame fell as I stated before can desolve the Conservative party as we know it. It's definately not a clear cut issue of how to go about things but it's most definately an important one.

Personally, I would like to see by-elections in the ridings affected where the party that won the seat was the party that was responsible for misdirecting voters. This is just my opinion. In my opinion, this would give the disenfranchised voters the chance to fulfill their civic duty as they wanted to and in my view, would be fair. As much as I dislike the conservatives and Harper, I don't think a general election is called for.

[Patty Smyth]

I don't want an election really , it's bad enough we may be in for a nasty provincial one in the fall here. Not looking forward to all the anti-anglo crap that will bring up.

I want to see people exposed though. Not a cover up,full disclosure, transparency and accountability.


I think if there were an election we would be back to a conservative minority.

[scam-master]

. I need to find the article I'm thinking of so that i can reference it but I beleive the Harper Government holds a Majority by only 6000-7000 votes, so those who were misdirected and never able to vote, or those that gave up trying to find their polling station, if they were not going to vote conservative could indeed have impacted a Minority vs Majority Government, but we'll never know that unless a new Election is called. But that truly in my opinion is neither here nor there.

.

6 - 7000 votes is way out in left field with that comment.

[Andit]

Personally, I would like to see by-elections in the ridings affected where the party that won the seat was the party that was responsible for misdirecting voters. This is just my opinion. In my opinion, this would give the disenfranchised voters the chance to fulfill their civic duty as they wanted to and in my view, would be fair. As much as I dislike the conservatives and Harper, I don't think a general election is called for.

+1

I actually did some detective work because I haven't seen any "headlines" on the news anywhere and Elections Canada is up to 5199 verified misleading Robo-calls. Here is the article dated yesterday.

The latest news release on Elections Canada's website lists 700 verified calls. I'm not sure where the journalist got the 5199 figure, since it is not listed officially.

http://elections.ca/content.aspx?sec...dir=pre&lang=e

And am I the only one seeing something amiss with the "source" of this info? Why are they bothering with an individual who hasn't worked for the PMO in 4 yrs & had no involvement with this election? Besides, he's a prof - you can't trust those shifty-eyed academics.

As for the results being the same, we don't know that for sure.

I can't remember which of the usual suspects did the poll last week, but it shows that support for Harper is more or less the same as it was, with a slight increase for the Libs & decrease for the NDP.

I need to find the article I'm thinking of so that i can reference it but I beleive the Harper Government holds a Majority by only 6000-7000 votes, so those who were misdirected and never able to vote, or those that gave up trying to find their polling station, if they were not going to vote conservative could indeed have impacted a Minority vs Majority Government, but we'll never know that unless a new Election is called.

I would love to see this article, if only to berate the so-called journalist who is very very confused.

If they are referring to the Guelph election, Frank Valeriote (Lib) won by 25,588 votes, compared to Marty Burke (PC) who got 19,352 votes.

If they are referring to the national vote, the stats are as follows:
PC - 5 835 270 votes
Lib - 2 783 076 votes
NDP - 4 512 411 votes

To say it isn't would be like saying, "Well Bobby only stole a candy bar from the corner store and since it wasn't a large item and didn't cause the stores bottom line to be effected let's just acknowledge it was wrong but move on. But Mark over there stole a car and since it's worth a big chunk of the car lots revenu he should be held accountable for it."

Isn't that what the crime omnibus bill is trying to do? Send that little miscreant to death row for a glimpse of what his life will be!

I know there is voter fatigue but my opinion is that if Canadians can't get off of their asses to vote in a new Election that is brought on due to someone somewhere undermining their democratic right to vote than they deserve to live in a society that doesn't believe in a Democratic rule.

As someone who spent my summers with my Grandparents growing up in such a society, I get a smidge annoyed at folks who denigrate our system of govt. Communism is a lovely theory, but is about as pleasant as Dante's seventh level of h-e-double hockey sticks.

You do make some good points as well as to who would call an election and that would I assume depend on who is found responsible of the robo calls. I have no idea how much Power/Authority Elections Canada has but I suspect that it isn't much lol If it is found out that it was the Harper Government than I would think not only the opposition would call for a new one but depending on where the blame fell as I stated before can desolve the Conservative party as we know it. It's definately not a clear cut issue of how to go about things but it's most definately an important one.

If a PM is found guilty of wrong-doing, the Gov Gen, as the Queen's rep, would have to take measures to dissolve the govt. I'm not sure who would rule in the interim, while an election is planned? I suspect things would be allowed to stay per the status quo, since the day to day running of the govt wouldn't change, but no new business (laws, appointments, etc) would be allowed. I'll have to ask my PoliSci expert tomorrow.


Thanks, everyone, for the chance to have an interesting discussion. If I've said anything to offend, I do apologize. I'm going through a rough time & my tongue might be a lot sharper than I intend.

[TaraF]

DH666, I think By-Elections at the very least should be called, but I think my issue is that just because Robo-Calls weren't reported in some ridings doesn't mean people didn't receive them and were affected by them ya know?

I want to see people exposed though. Not a cover up,full disclosure, transparency and accountability.

I most definitely agree. I am waiting very impatiently to find out who this jerk or jerks are.

Andit, to be honest I've read so many different articles from so many different news sources and have so many bookmarked I'll have to take some time to see if I still have it bookmarked. And I agree, I'm glad this has been able to remain a civil discussion even if/when we disagree here.

[Andit]

Andit, to be honest I've read so many different articles from so many different news sources and have so many bookmarked I'll have to take some time to see if I still have it bookmarked. And I agree, I'm glad this has been able to remain a civil discussion even if/when we disagree here.

Thanks for trying to find it. I just can't believe a journalist would make such an outlandish claim.

I'm not sure if I've posted the link to the raw data before, I got the info from Elections Canada.

http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx...as/41ge&lang=e

There are lots of pretty tables, so little need for number crunching (except for oddballs like me ).