So Disappointed

[smurf8488]

<comment removed> I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion and views and I am not writing to put anybody down or attack anyone…but im sorry to put a blanket statement of “you can afford cigarettes, booze, drugs etc then you don't need welfare or food stamps'..” I do believe is wrong, reason being yes there are a lot of people who abuse the system I wouldn’t say the majority but a lot of people and yes those people who are abusing it do ruin it for the people who really need it.

With that being said though me and my partner are on welfare currently because we have been informed recently that the disability checks he was getting was actually welfare checks they are classed as the same thing…my partner has a mental disability something he was diagnosed with at 16 something completely out of his control because of it he has been in and out of the hospital, unable to work or complete any schooling or really do anything for himself until 2 yrs ago when they finally got his medication correct. At that point he was classed as being perfectly capable of sustaining himself…with no high school education, not training or work experience nothing….fair right…no… Now he wants to have a job…he can’t though because he has no education or work experience no one will hire him (and trust me we have tried), so next education sounds pretty easy…not he was on a waiting list he applied 2 yrs ago to re attend school to get his high school the earliest he will get in is January which is closer now but wasn’t then. Meanwhile assistance will give him $600 a month to live, that’s rent, utilities, food, clothes everything there is not a dime more…with that kind of money you have to live with someone…so he does…Me…and when we became common law he was cut why because I work (on medical leave at the moment though)…I work a minimum wage job where I can barely afford to live on my own yet I’m supposed to take on an extra mouth and shell over the $1000 a month he needs to pay for his meds…not happening….so in order for him to keep is medical benefits i had to sign up which for a family of 2 his check would be $1200 a month to live on which is bad except I have to disclose my income and the more I make the more they deduct from his money…last month we got $292 and my rent is $713…that doesn’t include utilities or food and I’ve been off work for a month now without a dime to my name, I had to borrow to pay my rent I have disconnection notices up the ass coming in… we defiantly don’t live the life of luxury as a matter of fact we do without a lot of things…heck a lot of things people need we do without…
And at the end of this my partner is a smoker…a man that smokes a pack a day why?
He was 14 when his mom bought him a pack…yes he could have said no then…now it’s too late… he wants to quit he has tried every method out there that his doctor will allow for him to quit…it makes him vomit if he doesn’t get a smoke…his insides feel like they are being ripped out of him if he doesn’t get his smoke, Something he can’t just deal with because he is required to actively look for a job (which he does) and actively attend a training course for his disability (which he does) if he is not doing these things he loses his check…even worse he loses his medical coverage
Now again I’m going to say people are entitled to their own opinion and I’m not saying any of this to bash anyone…but to put a blanket judgment like that is just wrong…
everyone needs to realize taking the majority and making statements based on the majority actually hurts everyone even the people who are in need...so walk a mile in someone else’s shoes before you start to comment, criticize, accuse or judge you’d be surprised what you might learn

[electric_viking]

can i bum a smoke from someone?

[momof5boys]

Really?? How the heck is that?? I think thats pretty unfair, they don't have to pay tax, but they get a tax rebate?? Thanks for the new thorn in my side!! We have never received a GST rebate ( or child tax for that matter ) despite paying in $60,000 yearly in taxes. Gosh..... gonna start calling the Government Robin Hood.... stealing from the rich to give to the poor!!!

Those paying $60,000 yearly in taxes are in a very high income bracket. Those who receive GST rebates/child tax receive it because they are low income. Hardly seems fair to say that you are being stolen from.... We ALL pay taxes on goods we purchase....

[JennyFromTheRock]

Those paying $60,000 yearly in taxes are in a very high income bracket. Those who receive GST rebates/child tax receive it because they are low income. Hardly seems fair to say that you are being stolen from.... We ALL pay taxes on goods we purchase....

We all pay gst though, but only lower incomes get a rebate, I think its unfair since higher income people pay more gst ( buying more things ) and get none of it back.

Anyway, I wish all this running around in circles was burning calories..... but since its not I have to run an work on my abs while the kids are sleeping.

Was an interesting discussion.

[kelly25]

Wow! This is quite a judgmental thread. Personally, I value all persons until they do something heinous such as murder. Many people are not dealt a fair hand in life. It's very hard when someone has a disability, such as FASD or other invisible disability, which may affect how persons make decisions. We are a very rich country in comparison to most in the world. We can afford to have some compassion.

I knew you weren't genna stay away for long!! lol!

[tccl21]

I respectfully disagree with the OP. I DO judge people who have all those extras (cigarettes, booze, etc). My family makes a great income and is taxed at the highest level and we do not blow money on this type of stuff. It irks me to no end when I drive by community housing (housing that is PAID for with MY taxes) and half of the residents are sitting on the front stoop smoking cigarettes and not out working. Drive by at night and you see LARGE flat screen tvs up on the wall. Do I have a LARGE screen tv? No.

Same thing in the grocery store. Low income people buying stuff like chips, cookies and pop and then complaining that they have no money. Well, sweethearts, all of this "junk" food is taxable. If you shopped sensibly and bought from the outside perimeter of the store, then you'd save a bundle in taxes alone.

I just don't understand the way some live. But in the end, it is their choice. I just wish my taxes didn't contribute to it.

[electric_viking]

[Boo Radley]

Off-topic: I'm usually not sure what to do about threads like these. If I let them keep on going, people get offended and hurt. If I close them people accuse me of censorship and we miss out on an interesting debate. So far this thread has had mostly (not completely) educated polite discussion so I see no reason to stop the conversation. And I personally enjoy reading smart intellectual debates.

But please let's keep the discussion respectful

[snuffaluffagus]

When I come home with my paycheck, it's budgeted so that it benefits our family as a whole. I don't keep it all and expect other members of my family to fend for themselves. It's how our society works and, if we don't like it, we can always vote for a totalitarian government next time there's an election and see how we like that for a change.

If you see someone who needs a hand, and if you're so inclined, then give a helping hand. If you see outright abuse of the system, report it. Simply ranting about it doesn't seem very productive, imo.

[electric_viking]

[smurf8488]

i have to coment on the community housing....its not always payed for by others taxes...rent is decided by rgi(rent-geared-to-income)...and not every one that lives there doesnt work...i have a friend who lives in one of these places she is a single mom of 2, she smokes, she drinks, and she has a flat screen tv all of which she payed for with her own hard earned money....i live on welfare for reasons i have disclosed up above and i have 2 large flat screen tvs...one baught again with my hard earned money before i ended up on welfare and the second a gift from my partners mom... so for everyone plz again before commenting, criticizing, accusing, or judging walk a mile in some of there shoes....
with that im going to leave this sight now as some of these comments and post are actually hurtfull, discusting, and i feel very very apauling the lack of humanity here...

[Bronwen]

Off-topic: I'm usually not sure what to do about threads like these. If I let them keep on going, people get offended and hurt. If I close them people accuse me of censorship and we miss out on an interesting debate. So far this thread has had mostly (not completely) educated polite discussion so I see no reason to stop the conversation. And I personally enjoy reading smart intellectual debates.

But please let's keep the discussion respectful

Boo - I agree. I wasn't sure if I should expire the post and risk getting people upset so I will leave the call up to you and the mods. I think so far most of the posts have been within the guidelines of SC rules. I certainly didn't expect this thread to be so popular... Thanks

[lecale]

I think that drug testing for social assistance recipients is a moot point because as Andit pointed out, and for both OW and ODSP, the recipient signs a release giving social services access to their medical records (because these programs pay for prescriptions). If the government wanted addiction information, it is there and accessible for them. Within the last 10 years someone brought a case forward and argued that they should not be denied assistance because of addiction and won, so now having an addiction cannot be held against you. That just shows, anyway, that the ministry has used people's medical files against them in the past.

I think the judgement was because the concept of addiction has moved from, it's a moral failing, a character weakness, to it's a real medical problem.

I met a woman who was using meth and as this stuff dries out your mouth, her teeth had started being eaten away just like lace. Then within a few short months they began to break and rot and she had some brown pillars to set off her smile. She cleaned up and had all of her teeth pulled and got full upper and lower dentures...at 23. Now this is the thing, could you imagine the pain of letting your teeth rot in your mouth like that? And she still continued using the drug. This is the thing that blows my mind about some of the drugs out there, despite the horrible things that they do to you they still have the power to keep people using.

Certainly alcohol, if you are drinking heavily you just can't quit: you could die. You need to be checked into hospital and given tranquillizers to prevent seizures. This underscores how this is a medical problem, not a character weakness.

For people who are not daily users, sure, if you think someone is jacking the system let social services know. 1-800-394-7867 in Ontario...this is the anonymous, recorded hotline for social assistance fraud and I tell you these guys are out as fast as hornets to investigate tips.

But keep in mind it is not the role of social services to sign people up on skid row and churn them out eating wheat berries and lentils and teetotal. Basically all MCSS hopes for is that people are sober enough in working hours to work.

Two of my neighbours got in a pissing match: one reported the other to children's aid repeatedly based on her drinking. She has at least 6 a day, he's double that easily, but the kid is clean and fed and the house is spotless and they are both working. So children's aid was out here three times but they did not see any problems. So put that in your pipe and smoke it! As long as you are working the social service agencies don't care what you do.

Now should they? I mean should we have a crack government mobile team in the ministry of community and social services, hmm, let's call them the morality police, going home to home setting people on the right path in life?

I see in public housing that people use that toll free number to terrorize each other...if you want to make money on the side, everybody has to want you to make money on the side (e.g. if you're the guy that drives to the reservation to pick up everyone's cigarettes). Imagine if we had a number for the morality police and you could call in an anonymous tip on anyone for drinking, smoking, using drugs and investigators would be out within 24 hours like with the welfare fraud line. Oh what a lovely world it would be, kinda like moving to the middle east but right here in Canada.

I had to watch a lot of ST:TNG because of an ex, and one of the basic premises in this version of Star Trek is that it is a cash free society. They have Replicators and once you put something in the replicator once, the machine saves the "recipe" and can regenerate it...and replicators can be programmed with saved recipes...so the fact that you can make anything with this thing makes money irrelevant. And then they have the holodeck, where you can have any preprogramed adventure you like. Now in this idealistic, drug free society, not everyone can be a leader, a doer, a Captain Picard.

Now, since you don't need factories to make things because of the replicator, Star Trek imagines a rich society where people spend their idle time pursing music and the arts. But come on, honestly, how many people do you think in this society would just tune out and spend their idle days traveling between the replicator, the holodeck, and the toilet. If people become stressed or depressed (no purpose, or failure in society) it seems almost natural that they seek to numb their brain. And you wonder in this Star Trek world if they would ever recover from the lure of the technology that hides their dull reality.

I just mean we each have a huge potential to become addicted, we are biologically weak. Yes some people get into drugs for thrills but a lot of time, I think it is one person transmitting to the other, here, try my coping style, this will keep the edge off. There will always, always be addicts because our brains are designed for it.

You could say this could never happen to you but who knows, in ten years you could be blogging a story that starts, "It all began when I hurt my back..."

[xox2010]

I don't want to be rude, but if people have xboxes, TV's etc from before they ended up on welfare... why don't they sell them and use the money for their food, rent? Just curious.

[tccl21]

i have to coment on the community housing....its not always payed for by others taxes...rent is decided by rgi(rent-geared-to-income)...and not every one that lives there doesnt work...i have a friend who lives in one of these places she is a single mom of 2, she smokes, she drinks, and she has a flat screen tv all of which she payed for with her own hard earned money....i live on welfare for reasons i have disclosed up above and i have 2 large flat screen tvs...one baught again with my hard earned money before i ended up on welfare and the second a gift from my partners mom... so for everyone plz again before commenting, criticizing, accusing, or judging walk a mile in some of there shoes....
with that im going to leave this sight now as some of these comments and post are actually hurtfull, discusting, and i feel very very apauling the lack of humanity here...

I assume you've left, but I still want to make a comment or two about this. I don't agree with the "I got it before I ended up on welfare" statement. Not saying you should stare at the wall because you don't have tv. But with that tv comes cable, electricity, etc. It adds up. For me personally, if I came across hard times you bet I'd be selling or downgrading big ticket items to get back on my own 2 feet. Rationalizing is sometimes not very useful. I'm not in any way commenting specifically on your case - just using your words to expand on the debate.