assisted suicide

[TudorChick]

I know what my husband is feeling is out of fear, he doesnt want his wifes' parts in a science project, he also doesnt want me in the ground, wants me in an urn next to him.i know he loves me but if he does he must respect what i want in death...it is part of marriage.ugh...we got angry at each other. i went and got a living will the next day. i dont want to be on a machine. if i get to where i cant talk or eat or go to the bathroom, then i am done...i say anyways..

[TudorChick]

kinda funny. i went to my lawyer. he's like "you guys breaking up?!!! no!!!" i was like "no, i am having you handle my dead ass" ha ha.we had a good laugh

[Lynn49]

I feel the same way you do, TudorChick...and thank goodness my husband feels the same; there will be no tubes tying me to this earth when for all intents and purposes I'm d-o-n-e. My best Friend/soul sister (and I don't use that term lightly) went through sheer hell...she lost all dignity those last few weeks, and the thing about ALS is, one KNOWS what's going on...not like alzeimers which my Mom had...my Friend knew her body couldn't control her functions...all she did those last few days was write the word: DIE over and over and over on her whiteboard, her sheets...she was begging to die but our system, damn it to hell, forced her to "tough it out". It's going to take those in power to witness something like that happening to their loved ones before anyone takes this subject seriously!

[madchives]

well religious beliefs do curttail one tudorchick
but personally it is what you want so,,,,glad you have it covered.
but wish he would understand, ever hear what he wants?
and if it troubles you -- just agree?

and gee tubes lynn? from one who they can't get
blood from - i almost faint, but was able to use an 18 gauge
needle to iv a cat in my care, (for 18 months) so why shouldn't we go for it?
although i may have misunderstood.

thought of something your hubby may get, my nanny had a donation
she was already declared blind, nanny was 90.
had a little and i mean little donation and could see - does this
seem awful ---- nope.
as opposed to parts being in the ground i'd prefer --- giving

[Lynn49]

Chives, what I meant was I have a DNR, which of course means that no "tubes" or machines will be keeping me alive doing my breathing for me, once it's established that I won't ever be the way I was....alive, breathing and funcitioning on my own.....Just as my Friend had the option of having a breathing tube stuck into her neck..she refused, as do many ALS patients: it just prolongs the misery..death is preferable. I do hope the doctors fight like hell to make sure I don't slip into la-la land, but when I'm done, I want to be done. And yes, I have my organ donation card all signed up, so they can take whatever bits they need...where I'm going I doubt they'll be of any use to me...

[Patty Smyth]

I feel the same way you do, TudorChick...and thank goodness my husband feels the same; there will be no tubes tying me to this earth when for all intents and purposes I'm d-o-n-e. My best Friend/soul sister (and I don't use that term lightly) went through sheer hell...she lost all dignity those last few weeks, and the thing about ALS is, one KNOWS what's going on...not like alzeimers which my Mom had...my Friend knew her body couldn't control her functions...all she did those last few days was write the word: DIE over and over and over on her whiteboard, her sheets...she was begging to die but our system, damn it to hell, forced her to "tough it out". It's going to take those in power to witness something like that happening to their loved ones before anyone takes this subject seriously!

This breaks my heart

[Lynn49]

This breaks my heart

Oh, Patty...I almost wish her husband hadn't told me that...she wrote it on her white board, on her sheets and on herself! I loved her as a sister and to think that kind, generous, wouldn't say a bad thing about anyone! had to endure that....where is our humanity when we make those we love go through such pain! I honestly didn't know ALS was so painful towards the end of life...now I know and I have such sympathy for anyone who is facing that kind of death. Like I said: I have absolutely no fear of death. It's "dying" that I fear the most. Thank you for your kind thoughts, Hon....

[Andit]

Personally, I am not in favour of legalized assisted suicide.

I like to think that I am an open-minded, decent individual, but I am always wary of what happens when the govt gets involved. I fear that errors might occur. A few years back, friends of friends were visiting from Holland, where the unintended euthanasia of a patient was in the news (can`t seem to find the story online - a lady in remission from leukemia went into hospital for tests and her file got mixed up and she never left). Doctors and nurses are only human, mix-ups happen all the time (in my hospital stays I`ve had all sorts of oopsies - misdiagnoses, not being given meds, given foods I shouldn`t have had, etc).

But I don't understand why anyone is in pain. There are wonderful drugs out there to ease all symptoms of discomfort, no one should have to deal with any pain. When my friend's Mom (who passed away this past April at 94) had a hip replacement last year, she was given all sorts of pain meds (tough lady didn't take more than one or 2 and bounced right back). And when another friend's Dad had terminal cancer (he was cared for at home), the doctor left the family a month's worth of pain meds, then said he'd be back in a day or so with more in case needed (the implication being that if he didn't want to fight anymore, he could simply eat the pills like candy and feel no more pain).

Those who know my story, know that I am not unaware of `suffering`. I spent 2 horrible years on dialysis. Every patient has a different experience, mine was anything but pleasant. I would wake up each morning, then spend a half hour just trying to get up so I could crawl to the bathroom, then spend the next 10 minutes throwing up. Then, because I was a diabetic, I forced myself to eat a cracker or two and keep it down. The rest of the day was marginally better. My energy levels were low, but I insisted on living on my own (cause I'm stubborn and I'm d*****d if I let anything/anyone stop me from enjoying life). Disalysis gave me the energy to get through the days, but the actual process was not something I would wish on my worst enemy. The best way I can describe it is that it felt like my internal organs had been put into a blender and were being pushed through each and every pore in my body. It wasn't an issue of pain, that's easy enough to cope with (and there was some pain involved), it was the other icky stuff that put a damper on my social life. Didn't stop me from doing volunteer work (mostly online research for a small charity, since I got a few extra complications which affected my mobility). Ironically, I never wished for a peaceful end, neither did any of the other patients I met at the dialysis clinic.

I just fear that if assisted suicide is legalized, it won't always be the patient giving the consent.

One last personal story to explain why I am so dead set against it. A dear friend of mine got very sick very quickly (bad virus, dehydration, hospital screw up) and ended up in a coma for a couple of weeks. The doctors gave up on her, her family gave up on her (we, her friends, begged her brother to keep her on life support for at least one more week, cause she was only 37). Well, we got our miracle. M bounced back. And while she's got health issues she'll always have to deal with, she's got a really good job, has travelled all over North America and the Caribbean (we went on vacation together last year) and is always out and about, leading a very full life.

I truly do not wish to upset anyone, I do respect everyone's opinions. This is just such a horrible topic that I wish no one would have to deal with.

[Lynn49]

Andi, you've really been through the wringer, that's for certain and you know me well enough, hopefully, to know that I'm so sorry for what you went through. You're right: her pain should have been managed and if I was there I hope I'd have screamed my head off, begging for her to be relieved of that. She had a pic with morphine, but it was regulated by a timer, so although it provided mild relief, it was never enough nor were her family able to deliver more. A drug that was prescribed to put her into a "sleep" state had the exact opposite effect...it caused her to be agitated and she thrashed about violently. Personally I believe her attending physician was a dick! Oh, there are other horrible things that happened, but I'll spare everyone those details.

She wasn't someone in a coma, she was absolutely, without a doubt dying. Nothing in the world could save her. Why, I ask, do we want a person in that state to continue to suffer, or be kept in a comatose state? There is no reason for that. SHE knew her family was suffering with her...she knew they had to care for all her bodily function. Knowing her I know how her pride would have been crushed. She wanted to be released from her pain as well as her family's pain.

I don't advocate "pulling the plug" on someone in a coma because I believe in miracles, and of course that's a family's informed decision, not mine. It's wonderful that you and your friends gave her a second chance. However, if her family did make that decision no one would ever have known for certain that she would have survived. In hindsight you know it would have been wrong, but you would have had to live with their decision, as difficult as that may have been. In a perfect scenario, it should take many doctors of various disciplines to inform her family of the options, her chances of survival, and I doubt that was the case. When my Dad was hooked up to tubes, a feeding tube, not one single doctor told us the truth of his condition. We were in complete shock when he died. I never had the chance to say good-bye like I did with my Mom. I wonder if anyone told her family that she absolutely COULD wake up and be fine. For some reason the were given no hope, no chance for a miracle. She was very lucky to have her friends advocating on her behalf.

But my friend was out of miracles.

This is such a personal issue...and we're all coming at it from such different angles and experiences...I hope one day we can all come to some understanding about an individual's right to ask to be released from the pain they're enduring.

[madchives]

grabbing kleenex and am crying into this keyboard, sighing too
short version canada is not always treating people well eh, damn.
(not bothering to mention how my nanny ended up in the 'nut'
institution because of damn ass medical people).

but thinking with what brain i have left which is very minimal
(blame breaking bad and me)
something needs to change with how people who are as
distressed as lynn's bf are 'helped'.
can't imagine how heartbreaking it was to hear what
she tired to get with writing what she needed, oh geeee

and how andi is only here perhaps because of a mistake,
which of course we like hey.

when one knows they should be somewhere else
why should they not be able to be to?
i would not trust any gov't with this decision, and haven't
looked but surely somewhere people have a good plan,
which includes check points etc.
and of course no point in considering this option federally
but provincially perhaps.
(not that i think about it much, but do have something that
could put me in the hospital with no option but what kind
of coffin, thinking cremation after the parts are taken
geee hope i still have some usable ones,
my other nanny had a cornea transplant at the age of 90)

looking at a brighter point although it is hard, our gov't
is not about to shut down because the leader thinks we
should have medical care that does not bankrupt the individual.

not sure why my type went from bold to not, blame s/c

[Andit]

I am so very sorry if I came across as uncaring. I do apologize. It's just that my fear is that if govt gets involved, things always seem to go wrong.

There are discussions going on in some European countries about expanding assisted suicide to include folks struggling with depression and children with major health issues. It's one thing if someone in the final stages of a terminal illness wants to end the suffering, but I fear that this is the slippery slope that was mentioned earlier. Back in the (good) old days, doctors and nurses would simply leave a few extra pain pills around to hasten things along for those in palliative care (even the nuns would give these patients and extra pill or 20). Of course, those were also the days where disabled children were considered useless members of society (my best friend has CP and her mother fought more than one doctor who thought they should leave her in a care home and forget about her - this gal is brilliant, has a wonderful career where she is respected by her peers and the 100+ folks who work for her, is constantly out and about doing things).

I guess I just look at this from a different angle. Again, I am so sorry if I have upset anyone with my ramblings.

[Lynn49]

Andi, anyone who know you, knows that you're far, very far, from "uncaring"!
This is such a subjective issue....and we all have strong opinions and lots of questions...no worries, Sweetie-pie!

[i_forget]

I think that it is absolutely ridiculous that we do not have assisted suicide.
My aunt died last year. She had a stroke, hit her head and laid in a hospital bed for 5 days until her body finally gave out. She had a tear in her eye the entire time because she was suffering. Why did she have to go like that? Because we do not have assisted suicide in Canada and she had a DNR (no tubes, no meds) so she had to lay there, starve and suffer until she just went.

How is that fair to anyone? She was going to die anyways. She wanted to die, her time had come. Why not just help her on her way like she wants?

If someone is against Assisted Suicide, then fine. Do not ask for help, and lay there until you go.
But why do people feel the need to have control over the bodies of other people? Who is anyone to choose for me how I should go?

[saddlebag]

I fully support euthanasia if the person is in the final stages of death and that is the wishes of the patient and or the family....why make the person suffer any longer then necessary? If we have pets that are suffering we do the right thing and take them to the vet, and humanely stop the suffering, why not do the same for our human counterparts.....

i did a public speech on this topic a hundred years ago in high school and it upset quite a few people, however this is my opinion, and as a nurse I've watched too many people suffer for far too long.....and I feel it's just plain cruel

[Patty Smyth]

When my dad was in the hospital for 6 weeks last winter I saw some things that I don't ever want to see again. Broke my heart to see people with no CHOICE. At least give people a choice. Would I choose to do it? I have no idea. I guess we have to live in those shoes to be able to make the decision. If it were to be made legal I certainly would not want any bureaucrats deciding my fate. I would hope that a panel of highly trained doctors in all branches of medicine and ethics can put together a comprehensive, compassionate and yes, almost foolproof system. It can never be perfect, no system is. People make mistakes and people die. This happens all the time.

There would also need to be measures for those who assist to be immune from any wrong doing. I believe it can be done.