So Disappointed

[FallenPixels]

Well here is my two cents again. If you know of someone abusing the system, report them! If you don't report them, then don't complain about the system, because you are doing nothing to fix it!

Ontario, but likely the same across the country

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/...uditor-general
In one example, a family on disability support was paid $100,000 more than it was entitled to after the community and social services ministry "ignored" five complaints over several years from tipsters, said Auditor General Jim McCarter.

Another $600 million has been spent on welfare overpayments made because of a poor record of checking eligibility — in some cases with no proof of identity or legal status in Canada — compounded by only "minimal efforts" to get the money back.
...

The overpayments are equal to about one-third of the $1.9 billion annual cost of welfare, officially known as the Ontario Works program.

[FallenPixels]

That you for the information you posted, Lecale. Interesting that only the bottom 5% of the population is on social assistance, especially since that would include children. Although it would be obviously be far better for everyone if no one required assistance, I think that a society where 95% of us do not require that type of help is actually something to be quite happy about.

At least in Ontario, many have been moved onto new programs, like the government giving companies money to pay workers for apprenticeships and whatever else they are calling them, which personally I think is better as they are getting skills but it doesnt really show the true number at 5%

[JennyFromTheRock]

Yes the bottom 5% of the population is on social assistance.

Welfare and disability programs are funded municipally and provincially, respectively, so you would look at the province's budget I suppose. In 2010-2011, about 9% of Ontario Provincial taxes went to children's and social services together (http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/budget/p...tml#operations)

This is a federal link:
http://www.fin.gc.ca/tax-impot/2011/html-eng.asp

Highlights, out of every federal tax dollar:

30₵ Government worker's salaries

12₵ Government operations

13₵ Old people

11₵ Interest

8₵ National Defense

7₵ EI

5₵ Canada Child Tax Benefit and the Universal Child Care Benefit, the "big money" welfare moms get to raise their children

4₵ Aboriginals

3₵ RCMP and prisons

3₵ CRA

5% is a lot when you are considering its 5% of BILLIONS of dollars!! A women on welfare with 4 kids in addition to her welfare would get $2000 a month for them. Thats quite significant isnt it?? Thats $28,000 alone!! Plus $14,000 a year on welfare...... no wonder they don't want to work!!

Also, using your figures on 9% of provincial tax being spent on welfare programs..... thats STILL 9% more than I want to be spending on Other people's beer and cigarettes!!

Finally, someone posted that the calculation of Welfare would be $400 ish a year..... that would be IF everyone paid the same taxes...... someone who makes $20,000 a year would par far less then that and someone who Makes $200,000 a year ( like us ) would be paying in much much more for these programs.

Bottom line, and no matter how many posts this thread goes to, I'm not ok with tax dollars being spent on vlt's, beer, drugs, cigarettes, or fancy electronics. If you are on welfare, money should be accounted for, every dime. Its our money, we have a right to the peace of mind of knowing it was well spent.

[lecale]

At least in Ontario, many have been moved onto new programs, like the government giving companies money to pay workers for apprenticeships and whatever else they are calling them, which personally I think is better as they are getting skills but it doesnt really show the true number at 5%

In Ontario when you apprentice into these programs (they were promoting together here, truck driver training or hairdresser training) you get a training allowance through welfare and not EI. EI has much deeper pockets, they can issue grants and subsidies (that never need to be paid back) in the $1,500-$500,000k range. There is no way OW will invest that top range kind of money on an individual. But the money for the OW programs comes out of OW, not another program.

[JennyFromTheRock]

I think it would be a little more than A hundred, fity or twenty five dollars a person considering the cost of welfare is $6.6 BILLION...... and with 40 million people in canada, with 2 million of them on welfare at a cost of $6.6 billion.....it would be a lot more than $25 we are paying in.

"For the fiscal year ending March 31, 2011, about $6.6 Billion of the federal government's Canada Social Transfer to the provinces and territories will be for welfare and social programs.

Canada's population is estimated 33,739,900
In March 2009, there were 1, 711, 500 people on welfare in Canada"

I just researched this again......... the page I found that info on was an Ontario only page....

Turns out the $6.6 Billion was in Ontario alone... go figure!!! Guess it turns out that we all pay in a little more than $400 a year after all.... since that was only the amount from one province, times that by 10 to get the actual number..... its more like $4000 a year everyone pays in ( if averaged ) more for higher income people, less for lower.

"Social Assistance (Welfare) in Ontario

How Welfare Works in Ontario for clients of the system

Social Assistance Today
Posted June 9, 2011
(...)Ontario’s social assistance system is made up of two programs: Ontario Works for people in temporary financial need, and the Ontario Disability Support Program (ODSP), which is intended to help people with disabilities live as independently as possible and to reduce or eliminate disability-related barriers to employment. Together, Ontario Works and ODSP serve approximately 857,000 Ontarians each month. In 2009–10, total provincial expenditures on social assistance were about $6.6 billion, about six per cent of the provincial budget.
*Recommended reading!
- Click the link above, then use the links in the left margin of that page to find out more about:
* Eligibility
* Income Assistance and Other Benefits (incl. Total Annual Income for Selected Households, OntarioWorks and ODSP as at December 2010)
* Employment Services and Supports
* Program Delivery and Cost-sharing
* Other Programs
* Profile of People Receiving Ontario Works
* Profile of People Receiving ODSP
Source:
Commission for the Review
of Social Assistance in Ontario
Website launched June 9, 2011"

[DianneS]

At least in Ontario, many have been moved onto new programs, like the government giving companies money to pay workers for apprenticeships and whatever else they are calling them, which personally I think is better as they are getting skills but it doesnt really show the true number at 5%

True, and we probably don't have enough solid statistical data to really nail anything down as being completely accurate and reliable. I think it would be fair to say, though, that 'back-to-work' programs like apprenticeships, etc., are an investment in our country's future. Even those who attend university receive assistance because although they pay tuition, it doesn't cover the cost of their education. As a society, we subsidize students (although many would say 'not enough') to create equity and to build a better country.

[FallenPixels]

The Auditor General himself said it was being paid out of another program, its a back to work supplement, and not OW

[DianneS]

5% is a lot when you are considering its 5% of BILLIONS of dollars!! A women on welfare with 4 kids in addition to her welfare would get $2000 a month for them. Thats quite significant isnt it?? Thats $28,000 alone!! Plus $14,000 a year on welfare...... no wonder they don't want to work!!

Also, using your figures on 9% of provincial tax being spent on welfare programs..... thats STILL 9% more than I want to be spending on Other people's beer and cigarettes!!

Finally, someone posted that the calculation of Welfare would be $400 ish a year..... that would be IF everyone paid the same taxes...... someone who makes $20,000 a year would par far less then that and someone who Makes $200,000 a year ( like us ) would be paying in much much more for these programs.

Bottom line, and no matter how many posts this thread goes to, I'm not ok with tax dollars being spent on vlt's, beer, drugs, cigarettes, or fancy electronics. If you are on welfare, money should be accounted for, every dime. Its our money, we have a right to the peace of mind of knowing it was well spent.

I think it would be safe to say that no one who has posted in this thread is okay with their "tax dollars being spent on vlt's, beer, drugs, cigarettes, or fancy electronics."

[JennyFromTheRock]

I think it would be safe to say that no one who has posted in this thread is okay with their "tax dollars being spent on vlt's, beer, drugs, cigarettes, or fancy electronics."

What's the deal then?? Thats what this WHOLE thread is suppose to be about. People on welfare being tested for drugs, and shouldnt be wasting tax payers money.

[KrazE]

[Minou]

So, what would happen if people testing positive for drugs were denied welfare? If they're addicted, wouldn't they find other ways to get the money for drugs and the other things they need... ways that might have a hugely negative impact on society? Then we'd be paying more in taxes for law enforcement and jails.

Thank your lucky stars that you and your family are living a comfortable life. I'm sure you have everything you need. Many aren't so fortunate.

[JennyFromTheRock]

So, what would happen if people testing positive for drugs were denied welfare? If they're addicted, wouldn't they find other ways to get the money for drugs and the other things they need... ways that might have a hugely negative impact on society? Then we'd be paying more in taxes for law enforcement and jails.

Thank your lucky stars that you and your family are living a comfortable life. I'm sure you have everything you need. Many aren't so fortunate.

That point was brought up about being denied for welfare and turning to crime. I'd rather spend my tax dollars on jail for addicts who break the law, then give it to them to buy drugs.

[Minou]

It cost $109,699.00 a year to incarcerate a male prisoner in 2009. It's probably gone up since then. Did you mention that welfare cost society $14,000.00 a year?

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/07...st-five-years/

[TIMMYS]

The amount a person gets on welfare doesn't pay for a comfortable existence. A lot of the people who receive social assistance have been through a lot, and not knowing how to budget, buying the wrong foods, and having addictions comes with the territory. It would be nice if there could be more support offered to them in terms of counselling, healthy cooking and budgeting classes, etc. It would also be nice if rent money could be paid directly to the landlord, although it takes more staff to organize that.

Paydirects to landlords, hydro and gas are common place in my office. But we don't do them for the client's benefit or because we don't trust the clients to pay. We do it because of the biased attitudes of the landlords and to get the deposits waived by the utility companies

[DianneS]

What's the deal then?? Thats what this WHOLE thread is suppose to be about. People on welfare being tested for drugs, and shouldnt be wasting tax payers money.

My understanding is that the thread was initially about the fact that people often view all welfare recipients as spending their money on beer, drugs, gambling, etc., when in fact it is a generalization that is not true. That's what disturbed the OP. From your earlier post, your perspective, if I understand it correctly, is that social assistance recipients owe us an accounting of every dime of our tax money they spend.

My perspective is that there are many, many SA recipients who are good people going through a very difficult, dehumanizing time in their lives and stripping them of their dignity by asking this is not something I feel is right or fair. When we categorize people as a group and make generalizations about them, we forget that every one of them is a unique human being with their own journey in life. I have faith that most people strive to do better with their lives...some may fail miserably; some may try over and over, and finally give up; but many will succeed. My husband and I have been blessed and humbled to pay more in taxes each year than some people make. If some of that tax money gets misused (and I know some of it does), it is a risk I am willing to take, a cost I am willing to bear, in order to live in a society where all people have the opportunity to create a better life.