The Official and ONLY Place to Discuss Negative Trade Experiences + Trade Blacklist

[Giving-Small]

It's tricky isn't it. Some people have way more time to organize and host trains than others. Some of us get overwhelmed with one. Others can manage 10, no problem. It's organization skills, time and also combination of the riders and the availability of coupons that effect a train conductor's abiity to do great trains.

Making a rule to say only 5 trains at a time is arbitrary. Some do a poor job with 5. Some do a great job with 10. Some people run more short trains.

Just like it's hard to "rate" riders, it's hard to rate conductors. Did the train leave with rules and list and directions and did it get lost before it got to you? Were there the $100 (or whatever amount) as stated when it started.

One thing that does help is transparency. VWT really promote transparency. You can see what each rider sent you, so it resulting in more accountability but still not foolproof.

Transparency is working where:
- We can also see "how" many trains and trades you have ratings for and what they were
- We can see if someone is a new to the site by checking the join date and/or new trader and has trades pending on the new list

What we don't have is transparency for:
-How many trains are you currently riding (except for package train)?
-How many trains are you currently conducting?


Carla54321 - one of the best trains I ever road on was by a new conductor so don't stop unless you have a pile of feedback saying you need to learn more and if so learn more and keep going.

[alyssa2011]

I conducted my first train last month after riding on some myself. I was very nervous because I understood the responsibility that came with being a conductor. Everyone isrelying on you to check all envies and ensure that everything is in order. If something is wrong with what was sent, you gotta make it right, whether by your own means (ex. Supplying your own coupons) or making the call to have the rider fix it and run the risk of delaying the train. All this I was aware of and I actually had a few experiences on trains that almost made me want to not ride trains anymore, but, I thought I would conduct one and keep all those things (good or bad) that I had experienced to make my train run as smooth as possible. So, having said all that, I don't completely agree with having trains only conducted by conductors with a trade rating of over 100. I understand if you have a trade rating of 5 yes, of course that worries me, but setting it that high is a bit much too. I have seen some people running multiple trains at one time. They just finished filling one and they are already posting for another one. That is contributing to the diluting as well. It doesn't matter what your trade rating is, running that many trains doesn't give others the opportunity to try conducting their own train.

[bargain_hunter_lola]

I honestly had no idea that people felt like this otherwise I never would have started hosting trains so early. I feel really bad and I didn’t mean to step on any toes. I won’t run any more trains until I reach at least 100.

I dont think you personally "stepped on any toes" and I think 100 was just a number pulled out of the air. The point is that perhaps there should be some guidelines set out. It's something to look at.

There are people running 20 trains at a time, which has the potential to be a disaster. It's really the same concept as when the package trains became heavily supervised. Especially when it's someone relatively new hosting a lot of VWT's. They could potential take all the trains and run so to speak. And it's not just newbies, I remember 1 "oldie" a while ago that got in over her head.

Just thought it was a good idea to have some guidelines set out.

Please dont take it personally. I have never interacted with you but I'm sure you're a great conductor.

[Carla54321]

I don't think you should stop hosting trains as you also ride them and are aware how they work

NOWHERE on SC is there a rule saying you can't host trains ......I understand how other's feel Trains have become out of control (some have 10 trains going) and some guide lines should be in place
but until they are ....

It's tricky isn't it. Some people have way more time to organize and host trains than others. Some of us get overwhelmed with one. Others can manage 10, no problem. It's organization skills, time and also combination of the riders and the availability of coupons that effect a train conductor's abiity to do great trains.

Making a rule to say only 5 trains at a time is arbitrary. Some do a poor job with 5. Some do a great job with 10. Some people run more short trains.

Just like it's hard to "rate" riders, it's hard to rate conductors. Did the train leave with rules and list and directions and did it get lost before it got to you? Were there the $100 (or whatever amount) as stated when it started.

One thing that does help is transparency. VWT really promote transparency. You can see what each rider sent you, so it resulting in more accountability but still not foolproof.

Transparency is working where:
- We can also see "how" many trains and trades you have ratings for and what they were
- We can see if someone is a new to the site by checking the join date and/or new trader and has trades pending on the new list

What we don't have is transparency for:
-How many trains are you currently riding (except for package train)?
-How many trains are you currently conducting?


Carla54321 - one of the best trains I ever road on was by a new conductor so don't stop unless you have a pile of feedback saying you need to learn more and if so learn more and keep going.

I dont think you personally "stepped on any toes" and I think 100 was just a number pulled out of the air. The point is that perhaps there should be some guidelines set out. It's something to look at.

There are people running 20 trains at a time, which has the potential to be a disaster. It's really the same concept as when the package trains became heavily supervised. Especially when it's someone relatively new hosting a lot of VWT's. They could potential take all the trains and run so to speak. And it's not just newbies, I remember 1 "oldie" a while ago that got in over her head.

Just thought it was a good idea to have some guidelines set out.

Please dont take it personally. I have never interacted with you but I'm sure you're a great conductor.

[DianneS]

If I were able to see how many trains a conductor has running at one time, it would certainly factor into how I choose which train to participate in. That's not to say that I would automatically assume that if someone is running 15 or 20 trains that they are going to be poor quality. It would likely mean though, that I would choose to board the train of another reputable conductor who is running a much small number of trains.

[bargain_hunter_lola]

If I were able to see how many trains a conductor has running at one time, it would certainly factor into how I choose which train to participate in. That's not to say that I would automatically assume that if someone is running 15 or 20 trains that they are going to be poor quality. It would likely mean though, that I would choose to board the train of another reputable conductor who is running a much small number of trains.

You can see how many trains a conductor is running. It just takes some work.

Go to any users profile, click "Statistics" and go to the "Find all threads started by..." link.

It will take you to a list of all threads that user has started and you can quickly scroll down and see how many are trains.

Likewise if you ever have a hard time finding one of your threads, you can do the same process and find out where it is.

[NicoleLJ]

You can see how many trains a conductor is running. It just takes some work.

Go to any users profile, click "Statistics" and go to the "Find all threads started by..." link.

It will take you to a list of all threads that user has started and you can quickly scroll down and see how many are trains.

Likewise if you ever have a hard time finding one of your threads, you can do the same process and find out where it is.

This is how I check my trains every morning. It is so much easier then just going to the train section and scrolling through many many threads to see if any updates on mine are there yet.

I do think rules should be in place as well but rules that will enhance the trains and not make them all the same, if that makes any sense. I read the complaints here and went to look at the train section and I was shocked. Last year at this same time it was easy to find trains that had either no boarding pass required or a reasonable one. Now I see most asking for 3 or more stamps, $1.50 or more in CT money or FPC coupons from their wish list. Why the huge increase lately? 2 stamps for me was reasonable to ask for my trains because no matter what it means that I have enough stamps, if nothing else, to mail off the next train. I just don't get why the cost is so high. I can see why it is getting to not be worth riding. Anyway I was thinking this over and I would love to see a standard in place too. Here are some of my thoughts:
Conductors: - traditional trains should have a standard to chose from for boarding passes. Either a certain amount of stamps, coupons from their wish list or so on
- They should have clear instruction sheets. One of my biggest pet peeves when I first started riding trains was trains showing up without instruction sheets, addresses and so on. I always print off 2 very easy to read and clear instruction sheets. One is the master sheet that stays in my train binder that is updated at the same time I get updates on the thread. And the other is in the train itself.
-Also I think conductors should also post in their first post what the train left with. Not meaning the exact coupon name and such. But for example when my trains leave I post that there is say $50 in food coupons, $40 in pets and so on. In this way it helps riders spot when someone has broken the rules and tell if it was or not the conductor who sent it out.
-Also I listing of expiry dates. I always state in my first post what the earliest expiry date and the latest expiry date for the coupons I sent out. Agian so riders know how the train left.

Those are just some of my ideas for the conductors. Personally I do not think having a set amount of trains that a conductor can run is a good thing. I am a stay at home person. So I have the time to organize and run trains more often then say someone with kids and a full time job.

For riders - A rule that if they are not going to update the thread when they get the train that they can't join. I hate that. Myself and other riders will stress that the train has gone missing because one rider did not update the thread or pm me to let me know it was recieved. I understand things can happen to computers but there are also cell phones you can pm from, libraries and so many other ways to send a quick message.

- riders need to remove expired coupons when they recieve the train. Another huge pet peeve of mine and other riders is when we recieve a train that has tons of expires that have not been removed.

-also comunicate with your conductor. If you recieved it and there is an issue tell your conductor right away. This why it is easier to pin point where issues have arrisen and fix them.

THat is about it. I am also getting tired of running trains. I have many loyal riders that love my trains because they are clear and because they love the contest I run with each one. But it only takes one rider ruining it for the others. I am worried that if things continue as they are that all the good conductors and riders will stop doing trains. Anyway that is my ideas for what ever they are worth.

[theguyz]

If I were able to see how many trains a conductor has running at one time, it would certainly factor into how I choose which train to participate in. That's not to say that I would automatically assume that if someone is running 15 or 20 trains that they are going to be poor quality. It would likely mean though, that I would choose to board the train of another reputable conductor who is running a much small number of trains.

Trust me more then a few people running more then 3 VWT trains, and which ever one had FPC of HV boarding pass gets priority and they never update other trains and have all envi's sitting for a week then open up and post about other train...

I've ridden a few trains, with good conductors and ran smooth, untill feedback.... they get envi and post and leave no feedback for weeks or untill you inquire, but rule is you must post feedback once recevied..not fair

There should be a limit on trains boarding or running, as if you look at 1st 3-4 pages, 30% are buy same few people and some off track, etc.....It defeats my purpose when looking for a train and if i'm trying to avoid certain conductors, they have bumped the crap out of 1st page. I have to work to find s train not fair for other conductors or riders as stuck using most recent bumped as easier accessed.

[DianneS]

I absolutely understand that people who are at home during the day and are organized may have time to run 20 trains at once. I leave my home at 6:45 a.m. and get home 11 hours later, so I am grateful for all the good conductors out there. My hesitation to ride those trains is three-fold:

1. SmartCanucks is a community and any community only works well if everyone can participate. I would therefore choose to support a variety of reputable conductors so that more people have the opportunity find riders for their trains.

2. What would the quality of coupons be given the quantity one conductor would need to have to be running such a high number of trains at once? (I know that trains arrive back with coupons but a high percentage of those coupons are less than desirable by the time the envelope is returned to the conductor).

3. If the envelopes are all high quality coupons, it makes me wonder how the conductor gets that many. This is only my personal decision but with all the tear pad disappearances in my area I am choosing to conduct coupon transactions with people who do not raise questions in my mind. I do understand that people can get multiples of inserts very easily, however having an endless supply of the latest tear pads causes me to ask questions. I also understand that I may be missing out on some good opportunities and that I may be incorrect in my thinking. I want to be clear that I am not accusing anyone in this thread but I do want to do my trading/riding with people who are your run of the mill couponers who are trying to support their family. If someone can point out where my thinking on this point is off the mark, it would help me to understand how people would have such a high volume of coupons.

Of the last three trains I rode, one was abysmal and I have no idea where the problem began. The second one was not so great in terms of communication and the conductor checking coupons, etc. The third was was phenomenally good with excellent communication from the conductor, correction of errors (some of which I am extremely embarrassed to say were mine) and feedback posted the day she mailed the envelopes back. No matter what arrives in my envelope, I know she has done a stellar job. This conductor does have a few trains running right now and I would ride with her any day.

When it comes to boarding passes, I really appreciate the research you have done, Nicole. I do think boarding passes are becoming 'out of control'. I don't mind being asked for three stamps to return the coupons (in addition to a boarding pass)...but if the conductor only uses two of them then I do expect the third to be returned and this doesn't always happen. After all, they already have my boarding pass. (I know I may sound cheap). I did board a train last night where the actual boarding pass is either one stamp or two coupons from the conductor's wish list....that seems like a great arrangement to me. I had two coupons the conductor was RRLF, so it works well for both parties.

I also realize that many conductors put in a lot of effort to make their trains unique with lots of prizes, etc., and those trains often require stamps plus FPCs or GCs. They also involve games played along the way. Those are in a different category. I can't claim to have any experience on those trains because I don't ride them. They sound like fun but I haven't participated partly because it can be tough for me to get FPCs and HV coupons that are offered on-line during the work day. Some of these trains seem pretty complicated, too!

[sweetmomma]

I think the cost of stamps has increased and this is why conductors have chosen to increase the boarding pass. I myself don't mind paying a little extra on top to send envies but when you have 8+ riders the cost can get expensive due to the generousity of riders and/or the type of coupons sent(ie/if they're cardboard coupons from the cereal box--they can be a little heavier). Just my two cents.

[ErinsMom]

8-10 riders per train, on average 3 X $.61 stamps to return the enives.
That's $14.64-18.30 per train to return the coupons to all the riders.
I don't think many conductors would run trains if this was their out of pocket expense for every train they conducted.

The extra stamp & extra coupons cover for mistakes the conductor might have to fix out of her own stash, enies that may cost more, and a few extra coupons for the conductors time & effort.

So, not unreasonable in my mind to charge 4 stamps & a couple extra coupons for a boarding pass.

[jenp]

8-10 riders per train, on average 3 X $.61 stamps to return the enives.
That's $14.64-18.30 per train to return the coupons to all the riders.
I don't think many conductors would run trains if this was their out of pocket expense for every train they conducted.

The extra stamp & extra coupons cover for mistakes the conductor might have to fix out of her own stash, enies that may cost more, and a few extra coupons for the conductors time & effort.

So, not unreasonable in my mind to charge 4 stamps & a couple extra coupons for a boarding pass.

[DianneS]

I don't expect any conductor to pay my postage for me, so if it takes three stamps to return my envelope then that's what it takes. The 4th stamp to correct errors plus two coupons as a boarding pass doesn't make sense to me. The rider that makes the errors should be correcting them...not all the other riders. If I make an error on a train, then I feel the conductor should take any stamps that were sent to me in place of coupons to correct the error. If I didn't receive any, then she could correct the error with her stamps, send out all the other envelopes and only send mine once I have sent her the number of stamps that she is 'out of pocket'. She doesn't have to hold the train captive that way...and it is not unreasonable at all to hold a rider's envelope pending correction of the error(s). Does this make sense?

If I do the math on a VWL train where the conductor asks for 4 stamps, it means that it is taking seven stamps (three to send to her) plus a boarding pass so $4.27 right out of the gate. But maybe "it is what it is" and it would be smarter to trade a $5 gift card for $50 in hand-picked coupons....

That said, this has been a good discussion because riders and conductors have heard what each other are thinking. Of course, many of us have been both....

[pumpkin9211]

There have been some great points made regarding trains.

I don’t think having a limit as to how many trains a person can conduct at one time will be useful. It has been previously stated; some can run 10 above expectation, when another might struggle with 1.

I do host VWT. The most I have conducted at 1 time is 2. I work, family, blah, blah, blah. However, I ride MANY trains. Some with the same conductor (and riders) over and over again... why??! It’s simple. It’s like trading with 10 people at once.


I don’t think my coupon choices for people have suffered because I ride so many trains. I don’t steal entire tear pads. I don’t keep “all the good coupons” from a traditional train. I do have coupons on my wishlist that I would never use.... they are listed so I can have coupons to send to different riders. Might seem silly to some, but I enjoy “riding”. Some of the “die hard riders” do the same with their wishlist... it’s where I got the idea.


I don’t think I am a “train snob” either. I have ridden with new conductors and had a great ride. Alyssa2011 is a great example. Her train was without problems. What most don’t know.... I pm’d her before I joined.... got a great feeling from her response. I will continue to do this with new conductors.


Please try not to paint all conductors/riders with one brush. If you have questions about how many we are conducting, etc... Ask. Most would have no problem answering questions to help ease your concerns.


As for boarding passes, I do agree that some are a little on the high side ($5 GC, ect)... but it usually does take 3 stamps to send the envies home. Maybe conductors should say something like:
“If it only takes 2 P stamps to send the envie back to you, I will be keeping the extra stamp”. That’s a clear statement.


My personal opinion on the matter, keep the extra stamp.

Maybe people don't realize that most times if there is a mistake on a train, nobody knows except the conductor (who uses their own coupons/stamps to fix the errors) and the rider who is receiving the original bundle plus a little note from the conductor saying "I think they made a mistake/misunderstood/etc.... I added 2 p stamps/___ coupons"

[Allis154]

As a rider, I have ridden some poorly run trains, and some trains with poor coupon selection. I have also ridden lots of really great trains, both one with great communication and coupon collections. I now pick my conductors carefully...Not saying I won't ride a new one...but tend to be more careful now.

As a conductor, I have had some really great riders, and some really poor ones. I run mostly traditional trains, and only one VWT.

After running 30+ traditional trains (and cars), and having 6 derail (and couple more in question), conductors should be cut a little slack on here. We take all the risk, sending out lots of coupons to strangers, and then simply cross our fingers and hope that riders will follow the rules (lots don't), include a BP (gave up asking for coupons as they weren't from WL), and mail it to the next person in a reasonable time period.

Often, trains arrive home with missing BP, or have coupons in them that don’t follow the rules of the train. Or missing lots of value (even taking in expired coupon removal). As a conductor, we hardly ever can pinpoint who was the responsible rider.

Each rider has an idea of what they are looking for, and sometimes the coupons in a train don't meet those expectations. For example, I used to send out many cars in a particular train. All the cars had the same coupons, with a few exceptions. One car, rave success, came back with hardly any of the original coupons. Another car in the same train, very poor reception, with little taken out (I offered, and sent, coupons to each rider from their WL).

Having a limit as to how many trains a conductor can have running at once may be a solution. But only for VWL trains. From my experience (limited as it is), these are a lot of work, take lots of time and organization. One kept me plenty busy!

Traditional trains, I find, are much easier to run, and after the riders are posted and the trains on the way, there is very little else to do except update the train as it makes it to each rider. So, for me, having several running at various stages isn’t that difficult.

Maybe more honest rating..Neutrals…for conductors who run trains poorly. Not rating the coupons in the train, but how the train was conductor.. No rider list, no updates, etc….

Having to have a rating of 100 before hosting your first train maybe a little much. I had my first train out when my trade rating was about 15 (or 20?). But I had ridden a couple, and read lots of other trains by then.

My rating was over 100 before I did my VWL train. Wouldn’t want to have considered one of those before then. Perhaps having a 100 trade rating for conductors on these trains would be an idea.

Having a sticky for guidelines for conductors may work, but those who would read it would already do lots of research anyway, and find the info in other places.