So Disappointed

[Bronwen]

No no I wasn't saying their beliefs are ignorant. Ignorant means (at least the way I was using it) to not be fully educated about one topic. To a certain degree I am also ignorant on the topic, which is why I choose not to belittle the people doing these things on assistance. Sorry if you took it to mean anything else. A belief can't be ignorant. That doesn't even make sense ...

[saveadollardiva]

I have read the thread and I think by you posting something like this it only causes more issues than good. Because this is such a touchy subject. Your saying how you don't like that saying? well some people agree with it. Your acting like you don't know why people would say that comment? well people can say the same about you? The world has people who abuse the system plain and simple. Do all people do that no, BUT a big marjority do.

[firstimer1969]

Hi. Interesting discussion. I didn't read all the responses so this may have been posted already however, in response to the OP's post...

The first thing that came to my mind when i read this was addiction. Someone who is addicted to booze, drugs or what ever is an addict no matter how much money they have. And that money can be earned or provided to them. So being on assistance and spending most of their money on this kind of stuff may drive people crazy (me included) but for some it's out of their control. I think it's more of a reflection of our disjointed social support systems which don't truly help individuals but rather provide a temporary band-aid. Granted some do the right things pick up the pieces but other don't, because they can't. I don't want to start a debate about addiction, I was just providing a different perspective.

[Joe_]

I think people are missing the point of social assistance and compassion for others.

It doesn't count to say I am compassionate with people I agree with, and who behave the way I say they do. Compassion applies to everyone, including those you don't agree with. You are not being a good Christian if you choose to only associate with other good Christians (applies to any religion).

I completely get and understand the frustration at people on social assistance wasting their money on things like cigarettes and alcohol. But we don't know these people, how they got where they are now, what led them there, etc.

Consider this: whether you like it or not, the face of Canada is changing. Right now, it is a predominantly white Christian nation. What will happen when that changes? What example of tolerance and compassion are we setting?

You don't approve of taxpayer money spent on cigarettes. Last year, a minority didn't approve of taxpayer money being spent on music classes in schools, because their values dictate that music and dancing is 'evil'. AFAIK, nothing came out of it, but that is because that group is still a minority, and the majority decided it wasn't relevant. What happens when/if they become the majority?

I don't want to live in a country where someone else's values start dictating what you can and cannot do. I wouldn't want to see us become a country run by people who thinks taxpayer money shouldn't be wasted on letting women vote, have driver's licenses, be able to divorce, etc.

I know that isn't the same thing as the OT, but, if people who decide what you can and can't do on taxpayer money start using their own discretion, things could change in a very scary way.

[Bronwen]

I have read the thread and I think by you posting something like this it only causes more issues than good. Because this is such a touchy subject. Your saying how you don't like that saying? well some people agree with it. Your acting like you don't know why people would say that comment? well people can say the same about you? The world has people who abuse the system plain and simple. Do all people do that no, BUT a big marjority do.

Where is this fact from tho? I just don't see the government not stepping on if the majority of people are abusing it. I wish I could find some stats on the topic to better educate myself as well as others posting here as I'm sure everyone is wondering whether it is indeed the majority or not...

[Bronwen]

Hi. Interesting discussion. I didn't read all the responses so this may have been posted already however, in response to the OP's post...

The first thing that came to my mind when i read this was addiction. Someone who is addicted to booze, drugs or what ever is an addict no matter how much money they have. And that money can be earned or provided to them. So being on assistance and spending most of their money on this kind of stuff may drive people crazy (me included) but for some it's out of their control. I think it's more of a reflection of our disjointed social support systems which don't truly help individuals but rather provide a temporary band-aid. Granted some do the right things pick up the pieces but other don't, because they can't. I don't want to start a debate about addiction, I was just providing a different perspective.

This is basically what I was trying to say all along; when you are addicted you need more help than what I think social assistance is currently offering.

[JennyFromTheRock]

For the people who think its ok for someone with an addiction to be on social services to prevent crime..... that sounds a lot like a"give me what I want or else......" kind of situation for them. Just giving in to them and enabling their addiction. Perhaps those addicted people should b sent to rehab BEFORE getting benefits and if they want to keep them, drug testing must be passed.

Drugs aren't impossible to quit... you just have to WANT to quit.

[pumpkin9211]

Well, I think this is just becoming a "circle fight".

Bronwen, I understand what you were trying to say(I think )-- It's easy to judge people when you don't have to walk in their shoes.

Jennyfromtherock, you disagree with Bronwen (that's okay)

Saveadollardiva, you disagree with Brownen and support Jennyfromtherock (this is okay too)

THIS IS A TOUCHY SUBJECT!

Maybe everyone should just agree to disagree. BEFORE feelings are hurt and a mod has to get involved. Nobody wants that

[Bronwen]

Well, I think this is just becoming a "circle fight".

Bronwen, I understand what you were trying to say(I think )-- It's easy to judge people when you don't have to walk in their shoes.

Jennyfromtherock, you disagree with Bronwen (that's okay)

Saveadollardiva, you disagree with Brownen and support Jennyfromtherock (this is okay too)

THIS IS A TOUCHY SUBJECT!

Maybe everyone should just agree to disagree. BEFORE feelings are hurt and a mod has to get involved. Nobody wants that

I think you're right Pumpkin. I originally posted because it honestly is a very hot subject for me and I was frustrated to see it crop up again on my fb wall. I knew most people would disagree with the way I see it (maybe I just do a bad job of articulating why it bothers me so much).

Anyway, I think all of us SC'ers are really awesome because we've managed to debate very civilly about an extremely touchy subject, so kudos to all who posted and got involved - I certainly didn't think it would get this many replies

[couponmamaof03]

I think everyone should agree that there are people - big executives to the SA recipient, that rip off the taxpayer, uses alcohol, tobacco and drugs and just leave it at that!

Remember it's ok to have a difference of opinion.

[kelly25]

We once asked for welfare 7 years ago and got an 11$ check for the month! Yep, true story!
We need a system to help the needy and no matter what the system will always be imperfect to someone! Right along with there will always be someone to abuse the system.
Many ppl with different upbringings and values making this subject impossible to agree upon.

[Poodlegirl]

I wanted to chime in here........some of you know, most don't. I am a workaholic, I work 7 day per week and many times in the evening after work as well, on top of couponing. I am very busy.....so I was hit by a Semi Truck twice (he wanted to do it right i guess) I have a neck and shoulder injury to my left arm (I am left handed)
I did a very physical job, so lets fast forward....Now that I physically can't work due to injuries and the fact i dont qualify for EI. I met a "friend" that comes over and helps me to clean and do chores that are now very difficult for me to do now. BUT this guy....32 years old, him and his mother both collect assistance. When we talk about his assistance he is very defensive and will express without hesitation that he NEEDS the assistance. Because at some unknown point his leg or back or ass or foot or something is hurting him so that is why he needed to quit his sit down security job. I asked him why he doesnt work considering he is able bodied and can help me do things around that house....his comment"BUT I STARTED WORKING WHEN I WAS 15, I DESERVE A BREAK!" ??? are you kidding me!

That is the mentality of generations collecting assistance. ME ME ME! I hate sitting at home...be it in pain....but I only wish I could get out and about to go to work.

[luckbealady]

I had a roommate on OW.

She spent the majority of her cheque on clubs/alcohol/cell phone (she was only 20 and had been on OW since she was 18). Mind you she had no sense at all about things like budget or actual cost of items.
But she'd tell me how she could go to Walmart, price out clothes, tell her OW officer (or whatever they're called) that she needed to clothes for interviews, and she would get a cheque. Then she could take that money and spend it on whatever she wanted.

Another roommate at the same time was working full time and still collected OW because he never told them he was employed. Which gave him lots of extra money for booze and weed.

However, there was also a woman I briefly worked with years ago that was on welfare. She told me it was upsetting because if she worked full time she lost her daycare, but she couldn't afford daycare even with working full time (it was a minimum wage job), which made her feel like she'd be better off not working.

The system is broken. There are people who truly deserve and need the money and can use it wisely. Unfortunately, there seem to be many more who take advantage. I am all for a debit system. Not only are cheque cashing places making good money off the welfare people (there are 3 cheque cashing stores located within a block of our downtown welfare office), but it would make people accountable.

The other issue is that there are not enough people who investigate the people on welfare. My roommate told me she could just pick a few businesses out a phone book and tell her officer that she had interviews with them. They never checked.

[CrazyQT]

It's pretty disheartening to hear and see couples having baby after baby because their social assistance benefit increases with each child. These children are going to be dependent on their parents for at least 18 years. It disgusts me that they needed social assistance when they had ONE child and now some of them are working on their 3rd and 4th. I don't ever see them getting off of social assistance but don't worry I'll continue working for the next 25 years so they can sit at home and enjoy their easy earned income.

In no way am I saying raising children is easy but it sure would have been nice if I could have stayed home and and raised my kids compliments of some other hard working citizen.

that's my opinion on this subject.

[krysta lynne]

For the people who think its ok for someone with an addiction to be on social services to prevent crime..... that sounds a lot like a"give me what I want or else......" kind of situation for them. Just giving in to them and enabling their addiction. Perhaps those addicted people should b sent to rehab BEFORE getting benefits and if they want to keep them, drug testing must be passed.

Drugs aren't impossible to quit... you just have to WANT to quit.

this is not true. the want is not necessarily enough.

my father was a heroin addict who wanted to quit. he couldn't eventually died. my mother is still kicking around and had/has addictions to many differing things. in and out of rehab like its a hotel but just cannot shake the problem. and she wants desperately to be free of it for many reasons i do not care to explain to you.

you cannot make a statement like that and think you are correct.

neither of them lived/live off welfare. i do agree that these habits should not be paid for by tax payers. BUT it really really angers me when people make assumptions about addictions that they themselves do not fully understand.